The biggest Ponzi scheme of them all is social security:

[Stok]

The government is running a Madoff x 100:

http://www.socialsecurityreform.org/fastfacts/index.cfm

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/02/20050204-12.html

 

[Sandybestdog]

Hmmm. 2042 it will be bankrupt. I'll be 66 then. So for my many years of contributions, I'll get 1 year of benefits. Yea I'd say that's a scam.

 

[GTS]

Its not a Ponzi scheme because what they are doing is open and transparent.

You can argue that its insolvent, unworkable or a host of other things but all the facts are there for anyone that wants to educate themselves how SS works....unlike a Ponzi scheme where the promoter is lying about where the money comes from.

 

[Random.Capital]

Quote from GTS:

Its not a Ponzi scheme because what they are doing is open and transparent.

"Ponzi-ness" is not a function of who is looking, it's a function of capital structure. There is little doubt many of Madoff's investors knew full well the game was not legit - they just happened to think they were on the right side of the trade.

The OP is right, ever since Reagan increased payroll taxes for the purpose of supporting the Treasuries market, Social Security has become a ponzi. Despite the recent outrage over the proposal that 401k contributions being mandated into Treasury "investments", few commentators seem to have connected the (two) dots and realized that the US has already been doing this with Social Security for 25 years.

 

[GTS]

Quote from Random.Capital:
"Ponzi-ness" is not a function of who is looking, it's a function of capital structure.

I disagree.

Quote from Random.Capital:
There is little doubt many of Madoff's investors knew full well the game was not legit - they just happened to think they were on the right side of the trade.

I'm not sure what you are suggesting - that they suspected he was profiting on an illegal edge and choose to stick with him? That's hardly the same as what he was actually doing with their money. To say that they were "aware" is a huge stretch.

Again, with SS there is no deception because the facts are readily available. Not so with Madoff.

 

[Renegen]

The problem with social security is that the money was stolen by politicians and replaced with IOUs. I didn't know politicians were all billionaires. If the excess money was saved and invested in safe places, the situation wouldn't have been this bad. Now that take-outs will be greater than take-ins and the fund is empty, the US is fucked.

 

[tradersboredom]

The investors didn't know that Madoff ran a ponzi scheme.

10% returns are not a ponzi scheme.

Quote from Random.Capital:

"Ponzi-ness" is not a function of who is looking, it's a function of capital structure. There is little doubt many of Madoff's investors knew full well the game was not legit - they just happened to think they were on the right side of the trade.

The OP is right, ever since Reagan increased payroll taxes for the purpose of supporting the Treasuries market, Social Security has become a ponzi. Despite the recent outrage over the proposal that 401k contributions being mandated into Treasury "investments", few commentators seem to have connected the (two) dots and realized that the US has already been doing this with Social Security for 25 years.

 

[tradersboredom]

it won't go bankrupt, just they won't have social security, no welfare etc.

no unemployment benefits if you lose your job.

none of that socialism stuff.

Quote from Sandybestdog:

Hmmm. 2042 it will be bankrupt. I'll be 66 then. So for my many years of contributions, I'll get 1 year of benefits. Yea I'd say that's a scam.

 

[saliva]

If Bush hadn't squandered so much money on the phoney war he started in Iraq, why should it be such an issue? The guy didn't even get the clearance from U.N. but he makes charges against Russia in front of the world body when it invades Georgia. One thing for sure about us Americans is that we love double-standard.

 

[saliva]

Quote from tradersboredom:

it won't go bankrupt, just they won't have social security, no welfare etc.

no unemployment benefits if you lose your job.

none of that socialism stuff.

Kudos to that idea. However, ya better apply the same standard across the board, especially to corporate crooks like AIG and others.