The big question. How do i sort through the mess of the e-minis?

Quote from sellingrich:

That "speak to you" is right on. I spent a lot of time in Woodies room years ago and that is what he said. I bumped around with ES, then NQ, didn't like YM at all. Then I found the bonds, ZN and ZF, I like them a bunch.
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i always wondered about about bonds.
i used to have a longer term strategy to trade them but now that the markets went electronic i cant use it anymore.
problem i had with day trading bonds is that they have a huge tick increment of 31.25 per minimum tick. probably for longer term day trading like using at least 20 minute charts no?
 
Quote from joeb8822:

I have been trading the futures indexes for years
they can move like snot thru a tin whistle so be careful
trade on a sim account for a bit first to see what you like
and get a handle on the way they all trade


http://www.youtube.com/user/TradePilotPro


http://tradepilotpro.blogspot.com/

you can checkout the vids I have done as well as my
blog, I post breakout ranges almost every day for the indexes

Take Care,

Joe Baker [/QUOTEaccount

If you need real pratice on a sim account , be sure to "lift" the ask ( buy on the ask) and hit the bid to sell. Wich contract is the best ...big question ( specially intraday with the "weird" ER2).
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Quote from triggertrader:

Wow. it just seems that there are so many e-minis. which do i choose? we have the ES, the russel, nasdaq, and the dow.
so the question is which one do i trade?
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It's very simple.

Take your method and backtest (code or manual) it on all the Eminis.

The one that produces the best results is the one you should trade.

Simply, nobody can answer that question for you unless you and that trader are using the exact same Entry/Exit Signals.

This is just one of those things you have to find the answer on your own .

Finding that answer on your own shouldn't be too hard especially since you already know how to compare different trading instruments via criterias that seem important to you.

Quote from triggertrader:

...let me add i am trading commodities for 10 years. i am no newbie to commodity trading. i have unfortunately traded crude oil and there is slippage. i have never experienced any slippage with the eminis. the eminis are more liquid, have more open interest and volume than crude oil. crude oil margin is also very high. e-minis arent. e-minis also have dirt cheap commissions. crude oil traded in new a york exchange has high commission plus very high exchange fees. the quote fees are also higher than chicago quote fees on the e-minis. so head to head i dont see the advantage of crude over any of the e-minis...
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With that said, do the same research on the Eminis or maybe you already have your answers.

Yet, if the info you have isn't satisfying enough...

Backtest your method on each or put in the screen time to study them side by side in realtime.

If not, why are you in such a rush. :confused:

Mark
 
Quote from NihabaAshi:

It's very simple.

Take your method and backtest (code or manual) it on all the Eminis.

The one that produces the best results is the one you should trade.

Simply, nobody can answer that question for you unless you and that trader are using the exact same Entry/Exit Signals.

This is just one of those things you have to find the answer on your own .

Finding that answer on your own shouldn't be too hard especially since you already know how to compare different trading instruments via criterias that seem important to you.



With that said, do the same research on the Eminis or maybe you already have your answers.

Yet, if the info you have isn't satisfying enough...

Backtest your method on each or put in the screen time to study them side by side in realtime.

If not, why are you in such a rush. :confused:

Mark
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on the contrary.
i am not in a rush at all which is why i'm looking for feedback from my fellow traders before i make certain trading decisions.
one thing i have in my trading strategy is to be very patient. one reason why i am still alive in a business where 90% go broke.
in conclusion from all the appreciated responses i am getting from this thread it is difficult to just do the work. simulated trading has limited results due to the fact you cant simulate fills. you have to actually trade real time to see what the real time fills will be. this is a problem with all the back testing i have done over the years for many different commodities.
i guess being the fact that i am seeking 1-2 full point objectives in the ES, NQ and ER2 for example it would come down to which of these 2 commodities has the most movement on an average to move within a 1-2 point objective in the shortest period of time. this is why i asked the question. the question is for traders that look to generally make a point or 2. using that objective i was wondering which of the e-minis worked best for anyone here.
 
<i>"i guess being the fact that i am seeking 1-2 full point objectives in the ES, NQ and ER2 for example it would come down to which of these 2 commodities has the most movement on an average to move within a 1-2 point objective in the shortest period of time. this is why i asked the question. the question is for traders that look to generally make a point or 2. using that objective i was wondering which of the e-minis worked best for anyone here"</i>

They will all move that far... and much further in your favor than 1-2 points. I think what you are really asking is which one(s) won't move too far against you first.

It's natural human logic to assume that scalping for 1-2 points is the "safest" or highest-odds mode of trading. Identify a key entry spot, get in & out before the market can do naughty things to your position.

In reality, you are trading well inside of random market noise. Stops will get whacked constantly before even those meager profit targets are hit.

The smaller one tries to trade, the more precision is necessary in an unforgiving ratio. Hence, the only ones who can even come close to long-term success trading such small targets are the highest skilled, most experienced traders.

Newbies naturally think that quick-hit profits, scalping, etc is the easiest path. In fact, it is by far the hardest of all modes. Prett sure you will discover that for yourself while in demo mode, regardless of what symbol is tested.
 
sim trading in IB's demo account is pretty darn close to real trading. i tested it extensively side by side with real trading, and its VERY close. my methodology frequently (about 70% of the time) relies on limit orders, so realistic sim is essential to testing expectancy of setups.

also, in testing YM, you can trade DIA to test your setups. the tick size is the same (unlike SPY vs. ES).

the fills are not quite as good.

simply put, if your setups work with DIA, they will work (better) with YM generally speaking. and i have confirmed that with hundreds of test trades in DIA before i ever switched to YM

ashi is right in that the right contract to trade is the one that suits your trading style/setups.

i extensively tested mine and they work better in YM, which is one of the reasons i trade it almost exclusively.

i've made this point before, and i'll make it again. unless you are trading significant size, and i'm sure you are not, YM is better than YM in terms of spread ie cost effectiveness. for MOST setups this makes YM the better choice. but do the testing and find out for yourself.

NQ and russell, etc. are not closely correlated with the ES/YM complex, so they may be better, regardless of spread.
 
Quote from whitster:

sim trading in IB's demo account is pretty darn close to real trading. i tested it extensively side by side with real trading, and its VERY close. my methodology frequently (about 70% of the time) relies on limit orders, so realistic sim is essential to testing expectancy of setups.

also, in testing YM, you can trade DIA to test your setups. the tick size is the same (unlike SPY vs. ES).

the fills are not quite as good.

simply put, if your setups work with DIA, they will work (better) with YM generally speaking. and i have confirmed that with hundreds of test trades in DIA before i ever switched to YM

ashi is right in that the right contract to trade is the one that suits your trading style/setups.

i extensively tested mine and they work better in YM, which is one of the reasons i trade it almost exclusively.

i've made this point before, and i'll make it again. unless you are trading significant size, and i'm sure you are not, YM is better than YM in terms of spread ie cost effectiveness. for MOST setups this makes YM the better choice. but do the testing and find out for yourself.

NQ and russell, etc. are not closely correlated with the ES/YM complex, so they may be better, regardless of spread.
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i hear your point about the YM. the fact that it moves in only 1 point increments which are worth only $5 you can set profit target per ticks easier. the question is despite the smaller minimum ticks in the dow compared to the other eminis, do the minimum ticks in the dow move quicker than the minimum ticks in the other e-minis?
i have traded this contract before. one problem i have with it is liquidity. the volume today was 135500 and open interest only 90669. compare that to the e-mini closest to the mini dow, the russel
volume at 196908 but open interest way ahead at 648608. so what about slippage?
i heard something else about the emini dow. it follows the s&p. wouldnt it be better to trade the leader and not the follower?
 
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