The Arctic ice cap grows by 60% in a year.

Ricter · Sep 9, 2013

Quote from jem:

What is your argument? Given the recent expansion of the ice.

That the mass of ice is still smaller than on chart... what years are you comparing.
.
That we do not know the mass of ice?
That the 10 year chart is not like the current chart?

Come on... make a point.
Show us evidence of current global warming with some science to back it up.

Or admit that the earth has not warmed for 16 or so years, the IPCC models have failed.

And you, me and the scientists have no science showing man made co2 is causing warming.

Really ricter... in the past you acted like there was no doubt man made co2 was causing warming.
You acted like you had science showing that and that we were the goofs.

Do you still think you have science showing man made co2 causes warming?

I think it's phenomenal, though it's taken years, that you are now debating the 'A'
in AGW. At the start you didn't even think the Earth had warmed. In those days I enjoyed asking if you thought the melting ice was lying.

jem · Sep 9, 2013

Quote from Ricter:

I think it's phenomenal, though it's taken years, that you are now debating the 'A'
in AGW. At the start you didn't even think the Earth had warmed. In those days I enjoyed asking if you thought the melting ice was lying.

what a bunch of shit.

At first I had no idea if man was causing warming... I was not even challenging the idea we were warming.

Then a few years ago.. pspr or somelike him posted studies showing that warming proceeded co2 in the ice core so asked for proof that co2 causes warming on earth...

you never produced any proof of that and I am sure you still can't. I think your only offer of proof was a ridiculous t.v. episode.. which was entirely non scientific.

recently I have come to learn that it looks like greenhouse gases are more like a thermostat regulating temperature... I understand co2 is just a fraction of greenhouse gases
and that man made co2 is just a fraction of co2. I therefore realize there is almost no way your could show man made co2 causes significant warming.

but I do know you just lied your ass off because only only lately have I been arguing we have not warmed in 16 years. ( I only learned about that in the last year.)

soulsurfer · Sep 10, 2013

I'm somewhat surprised to see this topic being discussed (twice!) by Elite Traders. However since it is, this sums up my views:

"http://econnexus.org/the-mail-is-being-economical-with-the-truth-about-arctic-sea-ice/"

The obvious conclusion?

Given the number of things that David Rose has evidently managed to get wrong in just the first few lines of his article whilst discussing Arctic sea ice, how many more do you suppose he got wrong when he went on to consider "global cooling"?

jem · Sep 10, 2013

Quote from soulsurfer:

I'm somewhat surprised to see this topic being discussed (twice!) by Elite Traders. However since it is, this sums up my views:

"http://econnexus.org/the-mail-is-being-economical-with-the-truth-about-arctic-sea-ice/"

The obvious conclusion?

so your view will be only some of the 20 yachts are stuck because some used the southern passage... and that althougth glacier is much larger it is not quite 60 percent. ( note if you do the math from the minimum in Sept instead of august it is over 60%).

murray t turtle · Sep 11, 2013

Quote from CaptainObvious:

So we can use current photo evidence, or your 10 year old chart? What's your next argument? Things fluctuate? Duh, that's kind of what we've been telling you all along. The climate change....

=============
Captain;
With all due respect ...The next question is are you aware a 10 year chart with a 7,000+ year old earth is a small sample?? If earth is much older, you argument gets REAL WEAK.

Climate change=LOL belly laugh;
that the new name for the old scam =global warming.LOL

CaptainObvious · Sep 11, 2013

Quote from murray t turtle:

=============
Captain;
With all due respect ...The next question is are you aware a 10 year chart with a 7,000+ year old earth is a small sample?? If earth is much older, you argument gets REAL WEAK.

Climate change=LOL belly laugh;
that the new name for the old scam =global warming.LOL

Errrr, it ain't my argument. I was pointing out how ridiculous his chart was to begin with, and have made your same point myself many times. 10 years, or the data they have going back to the late 1800's ain't much to go on in the overall scheme of things. But maybe you're pulling my leg. I do believe the earth is older than 7000 years, unless you're one of those that think the Flintstones is actually factual.

soulsurfer · Sep 11, 2013

Quote from jem:

So your view will be only some of the 20 yachts are stuck because some used the southern passage

My view is that far less than 20 yachts are currently "ice bound". Zero is more like it. The crew of Libellule successfully completed the full Northwest Passage earlier today (UTC!) and celebrated with a traditional tot of rum.

http://econnexus.org/the-northwest-passage-in-2013/#comment-42362

althougth glacier is much larger it is not quite 60 percent. ( note if you do the math from the minimum in Sept instead of august it is over 60%).

The Mail said it was comparing with "this time last year". Sea ice is a very different kettle of fish to glacier ice. In particular the "square miles of ocean covered with ice" changes quite rapidly in August.

jem · Sep 12, 2013

so what percentage more ice are you arguing for?

the point really is... given that the earth has not warming in 16 years....

is this big bounce back in the ice part of natural variability or evidence the warming is cycling back to cooling?

Quote from soulsurfer:

My view is that far less than 20 yachts are currently "ice bound". Zero is more like it. The crew of Libellule successfully completed the full Northwest Passage earlier today (UTC!) and celebrated with a traditional tot of rum.

http://econnexus.org/the-northwest-passage-in-2013/#comment-42362

The Mail said it was comparing with "this time last year". Sea ice is a very different kettle of fish to glacier ice. In particular the "square miles of ocean covered with ice" changes quite rapidly in August.

Ricter · Sep 12, 2013

Quote from jem:

so what percentage more ice are you arguing for?

the point really is... given that the earth has not warming in 16 years....

is this big bounce back in the ice part of natural variability or evidence the warming is cycling back to cooling?

The Earth has been warming for 16 years, just not on land as it turns out. But ocean warming should be of great concern, water gives up heat much more slowly than land.

soulsurfer · Sep 12, 2013

Quote from jem:

Is this big bounce back in the ice part of natural variability or evidence the warming is cycling back to cooling?

The point really is that it's not a "big bounce back". Part of natural variability sounds much more likely to me. YMMV!