The Anti-Capitalistic Inquisition

power_uptick · Aug 19, 2005

Quote from Thunderdog:

Forgive me, but then I think you may have read a copy of the book that was written in a parallel universe.

Whatever. Why don't you tell us what
the book accuses Milken of doing since
you keep mentioning it as if it's the bible? Most of the book doesn't even focus on him, it focuses on others such as Boesky and Levine, both of whom were clearly guilty of insider trading.

Milken made his money by selling junk
bonds to institutions (such as soon to
be bankrupt S&Ls) who were greedy/naive enough to buy Drexel's sales pitch that historical default rates for junk could be extrapolated into the future.

Was this ethical on Milken's part? No. Was this illegal on Milken's part? No.
But it did make him a lot of enemies,
since the money raised was used by
takeover artists to threaten to buy
America's largest companies. Also, the
government needed someone to blame
for the S&L fiasco.

Thunderdog · Aug 19, 2005

power uptick,

Have you actually read the book from cover to cover? (Skimming doesn't count.) If not, please don't ask me to read it for you, even if it is a fairly slow day today thus far. If you have indeed read the whole book, then it would appear that your recollection and interpretation is rather selective. Bible? No. But it is a fairly comprehensive accounting of the period by an award winning journalist. Perhaps my standards are low compared to yours, but that is good enough for me.

As an aside, I ask that you kindly refer to my "P.S." comment to PoundTheRock in my post to him on the preceding page of this thread.

iceman1 · Aug 19, 2005

Quote from Thunderdog:

My sentiments exactly. Some people seem to have no problem putting shit into a cone and calling it ice cream.

well said in your previous posts, bro!

sick of these guys who will always make excuses for the rich maggot criminals in our society, who didnt even need the f*king dough in the first place..... but be first in line to want to throw away the key on some poor kid from the South side of Chicago!

hypocrisy.... it is alive and well and living in the USA!

Ice

iceman1 · Aug 19, 2005

Quote from Hydroblunt:

I dunno who here watches "The Wire" but this one quote by Sobatka in the 24th episode of the second season really stuck in my mind. Not too exact but it goes "This country used to be about making sh*t & bulding sh*t. Now it's just about reaching into the next guy's pocket". I think that hits very close to home when it comes to where USA government & corporations are headed. Everyone is either skimming/stealing, using justice for personal ambition or trying to cover their own a$$ & shift the blame while the country is slowly sinking under its own filth.

wow... great "quote" and I cannot agree more!

Ice

iceman1 · Aug 19, 2005

Quote from Thunderdog:

You must fancy yourself as a cigar-chomping "ubercapitalist," don't do? Why else would you defend someone who has, by all objective accounts, swindled his way to riches. That kind of ubercapitalism is presently most popular in the former Soviet Bloc countries. Perhaps you would feel more comfortable and free there.

P.S. If you are at all familiar with Mr. Milken's personality before he was incarcerated, then you would know that a master-of-the-universe type like him would never pay the kind of "fine" that he paid and willingly accept jail time if he were innocent. Never. The fact is, he knew a good trade when he saw one. You should credit him for that. And if you believe otherwise, then you are no stranger to naivete yourself.

EXACTLY right... it is amazing 'poundtherock' that you can even dignify some of the CRAP that's been going on in big-buck-overly greedy-non-patriotic-corporate America in the past 5-10 years as you seemingly do in your posting! Wake up guy, grow a heart.... a conscience.............. and maybe some reasonable morals!

YOU KNOW WHY we have so many f*king laws in this country (USA)? Because it takes all those frcking laws and all those parasite fricking lawyers and accountants... to ENFORCE... ... TEN SIMPLE COMMANDMENTS!

Ice

Covertibility · Aug 19, 2005

Jury Awards Widow $253.4M in Vioxx Trial

A Texas jury found pharmaceutical giant Merck & Co. liable Friday for the death of a man who took the once-popular painkiller Vioxx, awarding his widow $253.4 million in damages in the first of thousands of lawsuits pending across the country.

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In Texas, with the majority of the jury republicans who were in favor of tort reform drops the hammer on this despicable company.

PoundTheRock · Aug 21, 2005

Quote from Thunderdog:
You must fancy yourself as a cigar-chomping "ubercapitalist," don't do? Why else would you defend someone who has, by all objective accounts, swindled his way to riches. That kind of ubercapitalism is presently most popular in the former Soviet Bloc countries. Perhaps you would feel more comfortable and free there.

By all objective accounts? You will find that opinions of Milken are split right down the middle. After all, he was the genius that created the junk bond revolution.

Perhaps you can expand your horizons a bit:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0887307574/002-4071846-4260045?v=glance

And dude, you've got to read your own posts -- it's very easy to sniff out a phony (please take this in the spirit in which it's given, and maybe your trading will improve).

PoundTheRock · Aug 21, 2005

Quote from iceman1:

EXACTLY right... it is amazing 'poundtherock' that you can even dignify some of the CRAP that's been going on in big-buck-overly greedy-non-patriotic-corporate America in the past 5-10 years as you seemingly do in your posting! Wake up guy, grow a heart.... a conscience.............. and maybe some reasonable morals!

YOU KNOW WHY we have so many f*king laws in this country (USA)? Because it takes all those frcking laws and all those parasite fricking lawyers and accountants... to ENFORCE... ... TEN SIMPLE COMMANDMENTS!

Ice

Look Ice, the courts will take care of the criminals such as Bernie Ebbers et al. But does that mean we need more laws? Hell no. Sorry pal, I see a government that is overreaching and a bunch of lawyers who are gumming up the system. I get ten fucking litigation actions in the mail every day from Dewey Cheatem & Howe because someone's stock went down on an earnings warning.

By the way, we enforce only two of the ten commandments. All of the rest are bullshit.

science_trader · Aug 21, 2005

Quote from Covertibility:

It'd be nice if academia would produce something of value. Alot of these guys just don't live in the real world.

It seems you are not in the full ability to understand what academia do...

Thunderdog · Aug 21, 2005

Quote from PoundTheRock:

By all objective accounts? You will find that opinions of Milken are split right down the middle. After all, he was the genius that created the junk bond revolution.

Perhaps you can expand your horizons a bit:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0887307574/002-4071846-4260045?v=glance

And dude, you've got to read your own posts -- it's very easy to sniff out a phony (please take this in the spirit in which it's given, and maybe your trading will improve).

Your reading reference is a testament to the virtue of "seek and ye shall find." I have no doubt that you could also find me a book "proving" that black is white, or vice versa. Let me repeat what I wrote to you in an earlier post: Milken would never have paid the money he paid or accept a jail term if he were innocent. The selective nature of your perception is astonishing.

Genius? A genius salesman, perhaps, if we were to overlook a few legalities. As Stewart reported in his book, "...Milken never made any secret of the fact that the intellectual underpinnings of his interest in low-grade bonds were provided by others. W. Braddock Hickman had done a landmark analysis of low-grade and unrated bonds that Milken read while still in Berkley..." Perhaps I am being a bit too stringent, but I think that if you are going to make bold assertions, you should rely on an occasional fact or two. Admittedly, that does make it somewhat more restrictive.

I am a phony...what? And while you're sniffing, you may wish to do the scratch and sniff test on yourself.