The American Dream Built on Debt, Living in Beverly Hills

[aegis]

Quote from Optionpro007:


Agree, but it doesn't have to be. Over the last 2 centuries we have had more wealth created within the masses than ever before.

Yes, it HAS to be this way. Reversion to the mean.

An upper class has always existed, and will always exist. An upper class requires a lower class to exist, but not necessarily a middle class. When the upper class essentially "owns you", you tend to care less about your financial situation and piss your money away.

What we've seen in the last two centuries is a rarity. The industrial revolution created a demand for labor that established a middle class. Since the dawn of human civilization, this has only previously occurred twice for a limited number of years in ancient Greek and Roman societies. It obviously was not sustainable. And as we've been witnessing, the middle class is disappearing yet again.

 

[jjf]

Quote from aegis:

The government perhaps. Churches? I really don't believe religion is the root of the problem here. Yes, there are some dumb southern hick retirees who give their social security money to televangelists.

You forget that the church was the gov. in days gone by.
The modern concept of a secular democratic nation allowed small groups of people to bypass the church and grab the pot of gold (that is your productivity) for themselves.
The idea of churches in a modern secular society is to help keep the masses (that is you) in line and to help patch up the fallen.

 

[Scataphagos]

Quote from aegis:

"... The industrial revolution created a demand for labor that established a middle class.... [but] the middle class [in the USA] is disappearing...

Much of what made America great and an economic power, was the development of the largest and wealthiest middle-class any world economy has known.

Part of what made that possible in the US was lack of competion.

Now that there is an abundance of competition, jobs flow towards the low labor cost producer... and that's not us.

And I doubt there is anything we can do about it... save protectionist policies... and all the grief they would bring.

 

[jjf]

Quote from Scataphagos:

Much of what made America great and an economic power, was the development of the largest and wealthiest middle-class any world economy has known.

Part of what made that possible in the US was lack of competion.

Now that there is an abundance of competition, jobs flow towards the low labor cost producer... and that's not us.

And I doubt there is anything we can do about it... save protectionist policies... and all the grief they would bring.

bring on the robots. They work 24/7

 

[Scataphagos]

Quote from jjf:

bring on the robots. They work 24/7

High productivity is part of our problem. As we put sophisticated machines to work, replacing 10 workers, what do we do with the displaced?

At least when a Chinese factory worker gets laid off he can return to his family's peasant farm and scratch out a living as he'd always done before... we don't have even that as an alternative.

 

[peilthetraveler]

Quote from vhehn:

that leads to one of the most repulsive things about christianity. you can be a selfish ass your whole life but if you are able to say "i believe" before you die you are in the club.
i find it amusing to pin christians down that believe this way because it means that hitler, if he repented before he died, is in heaven but his jewish victims who did not believe got sent to hell.

That is one of the best things about Christianity. It means no matter how bad you fuck up in life, Gods mercy will be granted to you if you just repent and trust in Jesus. If his mercy is available to hitler, then its available to you too.

 

[peilthetraveler]

Thought i would share this bible passage with you.

Ecclesiastes 10:19

A feast is made for laughter, and wine makes life merry, but money is the answer for everything

 

[Scataphagos]

Quote from peilthetraveler:

That is one of the best things about Christianity. It means no matter how bad you fuck up in life, Gods mercy will be granted to you if you just repent and trust in Jesus. If his mercy is available to hitler, then its available to you too.

How convenient. You can do ANYTHING you want... just be sure to repent before you die and your slate is wiped clean?

Now, THAT'S the way to live...

 

[peilthetraveler]

Quote from Scataphagos:

How convenient. You can do ANYTHING you want... just be sure to repent before you die and your slate is wiped clean?

Now, THAT'S the way to live...

Thats the trick though...How do you know when you are going to die? You might get killed in a car accident today and not get time to repent. Everyone assumes that they will be 90 years old and on their death bed for a few weeks for time to contemplate about death. Maybe you think you might have a heart attack and have time to repent, but in reality you might only been thinking about the pain and spending your time praying that you dont die and forget to repent.

Alot of people (even self proclaimed Christians) think that if you just ask for forgiveness right before you die, you will get it. But thats not the way it works. Repenting means to turn from all sin, and knowing and trusting that the blood of Jesus dying on the cross is what pays our entry way into heaven. The gift is free to anyone that accepts it. Thats what makes Christianity so different from other religions. Everyone no matter what their background can have the gift. Everyone no matter what they did can get the gift. I know some of you think its not fair that a jew in a nazi camp can go to hell while hitler can go to heaven if he repents, but you have to look at it this way... We are all going to hell as we are all sinners. Nobody is good, everyone has done bad...some have done worse than others, but we are all headed to hell. Salvation is a gift from God that anyone can accept at any time. That demonstrates his mercy. Everyone has a free pass, they just have to take the ticket, not reject it.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from peilthetraveler:

Thats the trick though...How do you know when you are going to die? You might get killed in a car accident today and not get time to repent. Everyone assumes that they will be 90 years old and on their death bed for a few weeks for time to contemplate about death. Maybe you think you might have a heart attack and have time to repent, but in reality you might only been thinking about the pain and spending your time praying that you dont die and forget to repent.

Alot of people (even self proclaimed Christians) think that if you just ask for forgiveness right before you die, you will get it. But thats not the way it works. Repenting means to turn from all sin, and knowing and trusting that the blood of Jesus dying on the cross is what pays our entry way into heaven. The gift is free to anyone that accepts it. Thats what makes Christianity so different from other religions. Everyone no matter what their background can have the gift. Everyone no matter what they did can get the gift. I know some of you think its not fair that a jew in a nazi camp can go to hell while hitler can go to heaven if he repents, but you have to look at it this way... We are all going to hell as we are all sinners. Nobody is good, everyone has done bad...some have done worse than others, but we are all headed to hell. Salvation is a gift from God that anyone can accept at any time. That demonstrates his mercy. Everyone has a free pass, they just have to take the ticket, not reject it.

"Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do.. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! ..But He loves you."

written by George Carlin