The American Dream Built on Debt, Living in Beverly Hills

[Optionpro007]

Quote from jjf:

Why do you distinguish between religion and gov.

Each is an external power craving your body and it's productivity.
Neither want your creativity, just your obedience.

One uses fear and the other uses fear.
How can you tell the difference

Good point. I think we elect our government. Not sure what we can do about religious institutions or what they preach.

My remark was directed to religion as the mentality who has controlled what has been taught in school for centuries.(obviously not today's public schools)

I hope that as a society we will be able to learn from our mistakes and teach our children for their future. I think government is a mirror of it's society, if you want to fix government, you have to first fix society. (Or you have to have a government who has the power to fix society, which in our case it doesn't.)

The only way society evolves is through growing pains, there is no other way.

 

[jjf]

Quote from peilthetraveler:

Well I guess that keeps the pope out of heaven.

I'm guessing you are referring to the passage that its easier to get a camel thru the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

That passage means that you should not trust your riches to get you into heaven. You can give all the charity you want and it will not get you there.

I will take my chances with the camel

 

[Optionpro007]

Quote from peilthetraveler:

Yeah all of us spent 70% of our day in public school reading about Christianity, islam, buddism, hinduism, ect...

and THATS what messed up our thinking about money.

Oh wait...I dont remember spending 1 minute on religion in public school...do you?

I didn't attend public school. But I am curious, how many courses in personal finance did you get?

 

[jjf]

Quote from Optionpro007:



The only way society evolves is through growing pains, there is no other way.

sad but very true.
It applies to all of us as individuals.
After all society is the sum of the individuals.

 

[cleveland45]

Quote from fkbsuhites:

There has to be a total Armageddon like collapse of the system for the average idiot to change her ways.

Yes, I use only HER, because based on observing my immediate friends and family, it's primarily the women in these households who keep the rest of the home addicted to Chinese made garbage and shopping with credit cards with usurious interest rates. Most of these guys have given up and do what their women want.

The guys who put their feet down end up divorced and paying alimony and child support for kids they don't have visitation rights to.

They read the silly womens magazines and think they're all martha stewart. They watch oprah and think all their men should be as wealthy and famous as oprahs guests.

If you have little girls, bring them up the right way. They're not little princess and will most likely NOT grow up to marry a prince. The brainwashing of American women begins at a very early stage.

very good post, bushite.

One stupid poll said american men were prized as marriage mates because they "helped out around the house." LOL.

 

[aegis]

Quote from Optionpro007:

It wasn't government, it was religion, teaching us that rich people could never enter heaven.

That type of message if instilled in a brain of a 7 or 8 year old becomes part of his/hers subconscious programing for the rest of the person's life.

Umm, no. That's not the reason.

Everyone today wants to be rich. Their inability to do so has nothing to do with the religious beliefs that were imposed on them. Honestly, I went to a catholic school until I was 12 years old and don't even remember the "it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" quote. Nor do I remember anyone ever saying that "wealth is bad".

Only a small percentage of the population will ever become rich. Nothing new here.

Yet, you mention the importance of financial management skills for young people, but don't seem to realize that if everyone was frugal, the consumer markets we have today would not exist. Thus, the frugal types would have less access to opportunities designed for wealth creation. The reason why others are able to earn any real money investing is due to the fact that most people piss their money away.

Don't show them the error in their ways. They'll never learn anyway. Rather, take advantage of it. It has been this way since the dawn of human civilization and will likely end this way as well.

Do you honestly believe that if kids were required to take a personal finance course that they would grow up to be more responsible consumers? Give me a break.

 

[jjf]

Quote from aegis:

Umm, no. That's not the reason.

Everyone today wants to be rich. Their inability to do so has nothing to do with the religious beliefs that were imposed on them. Honestly, I went to a catholic school until I was 12 years old and don't even remember the "it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" quote. Nor do I remember anyone ever saying that "wealth is bad".

Only a small percentage of the population will ever become rich. Nothing new here.

Yet, you mention the importance of financial management skills for young people, but don't seem to realize that if everyone was frugal, the consumer markets we have today would not exist. Thus, the frugal types would have less access to opportunities designed for wealth creation. The reason why others are able to earn any real money investing is due to the fact that most people piss their money away.

Don't show them the error in their ways. They'll never learn anyway. Rather, take advantage of it. It has been this way since the dawn of human civilization and will likely end this way as well.

Do you honestly believe that if kids were required to take a personal finance course that they would grow up to be more responsible consumers? Give me a break.

Your reasoning that people are irresponsible provides the very cracks in the floorboards that allows gov. and churches to grow and prosper.

 

[Optionpro007]

Quote from aegis:

Umm, no. That's not the reason.

Everyone today wants to be rich. Their inability to do so has nothing to do with the religious beliefs that were imposed on them. Honestly, I went to a catholic school until I was 12 years old and don't even remember the "it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" quote. Nor do I remember anyone ever saying that "wealth is bad".

Tim.(6:10) For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Tim (6:9) But they that will be (have a desire to be) rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful hists, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

Quote from aegis:
Only a small percentage of the population will ever become rich. Nothing new here.
[/B]

Agree, but it doesn't have to be. Over the last 2 centuries we have had more wealth created within the masses than ever before.

Quote from aegis:

Yet, you mention the importance of financial management skills for young people, but don't seem to realize that if everyone was frugal, the consumer markets we have today would not exist. Thus, the frugal types would have less access to opportunities designed for wealth creation. The reason why others are able to earn any real money investing is due to the fact that most people piss their money away.

Don't show them the error in their ways. They'll never learn anyway. Rather, take advantage of it. It has been this way since the dawn of human civilization and will likely end this way as well.

Do you honestly believe that if kids were required to take a personal finance course that they would grow up to be more responsible consumers? Give me a break. [/B]

What do you think happened to the kids that lived through the great depression? Did they not learn something? That the generations that followed forgot about the lessons of those years is another story.

 

[aegis]

Quote from jjf:

Your reasoning that people are irresponsible provides the very cracks in the floorboards that allows gov. and churches to grow and prosper.

The government perhaps. Churches? I really don't believe religion is the root of the problem here. Yes, there are some dumb southern hick retirees who give their social security money to televangelists.

However, no amount of financial education is going to teach kids to spend money wisely, just as sex education won't keep kids from having sex and the DARE program won't stop kids from doing drugs. Certain people are predisposed to impulse buying. In fact, the root of the problem may have more to do with nature rather than nurture.

 

[Random.Capital]

So to summarize this thread...

Leveraging income and assets to live beyond your means: bad.

Leveraging income and assets to trade @ 10:1 or beyond : bad if you are Goldman Sachs or HSBC

Leveraging income and assets to trade @ 10:1 or beyond : a Good Thing and Vitally Necessary For Well Functioning Markets