The 8 biggest economic lies

Medicare does not use price controls. Medicare uses price negotiation -- exactly the same principle you use every time you decide whether or not to buy something. Insurance companies use the same process to negotiate fees, but are less honest about it than medicare, since they often cheat you by not revealing the discounted amount they actually paid. Thus if you have an 80/20 policy you can be cheated. Physicians have a choice, they can choose not to accept medicare patients.
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Merriam-Webster defines "negotiate" as "to confer with another so as to arrive at the settlement of some matter." Medicare does not confer with medical providers about prices. If providers don't accept these prices, then they will not be reimbursed for treating Medicare patients, that is NOT a negotiation.

Liberal economists cheat everyone by not clarifying that upfront.

Go learn before speaking
 
Quote from Mav88:

Medicare isn't insurance, when u geniuses gonna figure that out?
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You need to read and re-read, I never said medicare was insurance. No need to be rude, it doesn't bolster your argument.
 
Quote from Mav88:

Merriam-Webster defines "negotiate" as "to confer with another so as to arrive at the settlement of some matter." Medicare does not confer with medical providers about prices. If providers don't accept these prices, then they will not be reimbursed for treating Medicare patients, that is NOT a negotiation.

Liberal economists cheat everyone by not clarifying that upfront.

Go learn before speaking
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for a not so smart ass you sure arrogant in your ignorance. medicare says we will offer x for this procedure. every doctor is free to lift the offer or to decline the business. that is hardly price fixing.
it is the exact principle the insurance companies like blue cross.use. the small hospital in my town refused to accept blue cross patients for over a year while they fought over the rates.

as far as medicare drugs i hate to make you look stupid twice in one post but here goes:
"The law that established Medicare Part D explicitly prohibits the prescription drug program from negotiating lower drug ...
" http://www.ncpssm.org/pdf/price_negotiation_part_d.pdf
 
You need to read and re-read, I never said medicare was insurance. No need to be rude, it doesn't bolster your argument.
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the point is that you said 'pro insurance' types should read whatever, why? it has nothing to do with my point

Admin costs as a percentage of total cost is misleading anyway mathematically. It simply means medicare probably shovels out more money per patient.
 
for a not so smart ass you sure arrogant in your ignorance. medicare says we will offer x for this procedure. every doctor is free to lift the offer or to decline the business. that is hardly price fixing.
it is the exact principle the insurance companies like blue cross.use. the small hospital in my town refused to accept blue cross patients for over a year while they fought over the rates.

as far as medicare drugs i hate to make you look stupid twice in one post but here goes:
"The law that established Medicare Part D explicitly prohibits the prescription drug program from negotiating lower drug ...
" http://www.ncpssm.org/pdf/price_negotiation_part_d.pdf
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I said price controls, not fixing. However the point was what medicare engages in is NOT a negotiation and I notice you don't really address that. "take it or leave it" IS NOT negotiation

On your second point I said the insurance company(s) negotiates, not the gov't since the price is based on a percentage of market wholesale price and not what some bureaucrat decides.

You now looked stupid more than I care to go back and count.
 
Think about this- medicare has actually already set below market prices for their services (which is why you won't get the best doctors), so what would a negotiaion get? How the hell could one negotiate lower than what they have by simply setting it themselves? {At least insurance companies are 'arguing' with providers.} Now esteemed Berkeley genius Reich thinks the exploding costs of medicare, which is bankrupting this nation, can be actually lowered by negotiating.

I'm still floored by Reich's tortured logic: It's not the program, it's the costs of the program that are causing the problem.

So therefore it's not the war itself folks causing the DOD budget problems, it's the cost of the people, guns, ammo, food, ships, planes, tanks etc. Got that?

This man is a professor!
 
I've had some health issues just this month with me and my family. I have a small business and buy my own insurance. I was sitting in the hospital waiting for some follow up procedures and was people watching. Most were old, meaning they were on medicare, I saw a county employee shirt, another government paid health plan. There were a few who looked poorer than dirt, again government paid health care. I was probably the only one in the waiting room who personally paid for their health insurance. That is who this health care problem hurts, the small businessman. A public health care plan would explode the hiring market. Health care or lack of it is the main thing after demand stopping small businesses from hiring. I really do not understand the rights fanatic support of our current insurance system, it sucks. I had to get a colonoscopy, when I bought the plan the salesman, whose only concern is with his pay not health care, told me the plan paid 100% for preventative care. Of course you know what happened I'm going to be out the apx. 3 grand for the procedure, in Texas it is now required that insurance pay for preventive care but the company is kind enough to grandfather me in so I don't benefit from the new rules. Fuck insurance companies, they would let you die for a buck. I'm lucky that I can pay for what I needed. There are people right now who will die because of a 2 to 3 thousand dollar procedure they can't get. And the irony of it all is when they do get colon cancer and go totally broke, medicare will pay tens of thousands in end care, because then they will qualify for government health care. Folks the system we have is insane. The health insurance companies are not worth saving.

military - government health care for life
elderly - government health care
federal, state, county and city - government health care
poor - government health care
large corporation employees - employer paid and subsidized health care
self employed - paid for by the individual, if insured at all
employees of the self employed - a good chance there is no health insurance, which means when it gets real bad the government takes over.
Wake up people.
 
Quote from Mav88:

I said price controls, not fixing. However the point was what medicare engages in is NOT a negotiation and I notice you don't really address that. "take it or leave it" IS NOT negotiation
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if you had even as much business experience as the kid that mows lawns you would know that almost all service businesses work on a take it or leave it basis.
when you walk up to the old ladys door and offer to mow her lawn and she says i will pay you $10 because that is what other people are doing it for, you can either take it or leave it.
there are many doctors that do tell medicare they will not accept the offer but obviously there are enough that do to get the work done.
 
Quote from bigarrow:

A public health care plan would explode the hiring market. Health care or lack of it is the main thing after demand stopping small businesses from hiring.
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its nice to know that some one else understands this point. a public health care plan paid for by a deduction from wages would be one of the best things that government could do for busness. i cant imagine a businessman who wouldnt want to get rid of the nightmare of dealing with insurance companies.
 
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