Thanking God for your good fortune is the ultimate conceit

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

Something limited evaluating something that would be Unlimited...and you think that is logical.

Too funny...

Hey, you are welcome to your beliefs, your bitterness, and obvious pain from past religious training, but all of that has nothing to do with making a true argument from limited information, then demanding that a limited mind should understand something that is not Unlimited, and then claiming your position is logical.

All of your conclusions that you are proud of are collected by a limited instrument, then you use them to develop a belief system accordingly.

That you they try to surrender all intellectual and non intellectual doubt to your chosen personal belief system, which is derived from limited instrumentation, to in some way be superior in any attempt at finding an Ultimate truth such that you project that your belief system is better than another's just demonstrates the flawed logic. If it suits you fine, but your brand of fire and brimstone atheism is no less of a dogma than any other preacher who is always trying to convince himself by converting others to his belief system.

You really don't know, because you can't know, but you sure do appear to believe. While you don't really know, like other true believers you seem to have succeeded in first and foremost step of sufficiently convincing yourself of your own intellectual conclusions, knowing in the very back of your mind, and in the depth of your heart, and in the pit of your stomach, to the fiber of your soul...that your conclusions are just as unprovable as a theists conclusions, and requires you to grip with an unshakable faith to maintain their foundation. You really appear to be a true believer, of that I haven't much doubt...but all true believers need to believe in something, whether it is atheism, or theism.

The hypnotic feeling of certainty that is brought through the application of intellectual conclusions derived by a limited mind is no less of a drug than any other opiate...but of course your limited and flawed intellect will tell you that you are the one with the correct point of view, and those who do not share yours when it comes to such matters are the ones who are wrong...

Quote from vhehn:

We only assume those things because of observed evidence. You cant do that with god because he never speaks or acts.
Yes i agree human intellect is limited but is a lot less limited today than it was when primitive humans developed the concept of gods. Gods were invented to answer questions their primitive minds could not conceive of. Primitive minds could not conceive of a natural explanation for thunder and lightning so they thought it was a god speaking to them.

 

[maxpi]

Quote from vhehn:

Have you thought about praying for lower taxes since every prayer you have ever prayed has been answerd? One has to wonder why when parents pray for a dying child the answer is always no but he has no trouble helping you make more money trading.

God would have to violate the will of a lot of people to lower my taxes. It's not really in my domain to pray for that and expect some kind of response any time soon. I'll pray about it actually, I might wind up with the loophole of all loopholes, who knows?

So which do you hate more, conservatives or Bible readers? I don't really hate anybody.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from maxpi:

God would have to violate the will of a lot of people to lower my taxes. It's not really in my domain to pray for that and expect some kind of response any time soon. I'll pray about it actually, I might wind up with the loophole of all loopholes, who knows?

Nice answer. Any thoughts about vhehn's other example, the one about parents praying for their dying child? Perhaps they were not praying as hard for their child's recovery as you were praying for your trading profits?

 

[pattersb]

During a Discovery Channel documentary I heard the most fascinating thought. The topic was the complexities of the mind and the differences between male and female brains.

It closed with a comment from a neuroscience professor. (From Wisconsin by the way). He suggested it may not be possible for the human brain to transcend itself. Which is to say that our understanding of the functioning of the human brain may be limited by the very functioning of our human minds.

So it may be, with what we often refered to as "God".

I'm actually somewhat sympathetic to the topic of this thread. Religion can certainly be misused. For one person, thanking god may be of conceit, for another it may be the ultimate gesture in humility.

Jimmy and Tammy Faye Baker thanking god for their mansions and cadilics is one thing. Someone who crawled out of poverty, and spends his winnings on charity is another.

 

[I am...]

Quote from Thunderdog:

Recently, I heard someone give a victory speech. He thanked God for his good fortune. It immediately reminded me of other such instances where, in an apparent and misguided attempt at humility, the speaker thanked God for the turn of events.

It is deep and utter bullshit.

You are right.

First of all, our Father has nothing whatsoever to do with events...or anything in this world at all.

Second, the idea that gain must come at the loss of another has nothing in common with the thoughts of God.

The idea that you can gain or lose anything is meaningless to our Father who gave you everything forever.

Therefore, victory is meaningless to God, much less a victory speech.

Prayer is a means of asking for something. It is the medium of miracles. But the only meaningful prayer is for forgiveness because those who have been forgiven have everything. Once forgiveness has been accepted, prayer in the usual sense becomes utterly meaningless.

The prayer for forgiveness is nothing more than a request that you be able to recognize what you already have.

Jesus

 

[jem]

Quote from I am...:

You are right.

First of all, our Father has nothing whatsoever to do with events...or anything in this world at all.

Second, the idea that gain must come at the loss of another has nothing in common with the thoughts of God.

The idea that you can gain or lose anything is meaningless to our Father who gave you everything forever.

Therefore, victory is meaningless to God, much less a victory speech.

Prayer is a means of asking for something. It is the medium of miracles. But the only meaningful prayer is for forgiveness because those who have been forgiven have everything. Once forgiveness has been accepted, prayer in the usual sense becomes utterly meaningless.

The prayer for forgiveness is nothing more than a request that you be able to recognize what you already have.

Jesus

so prayer is useless except for asking for forgiveness? - do you just think the bible is always wrong? What is the point of using the name Jesus if you dispute his teachings?

 

[Turok]

Max:
>God would have to violate the will of a lot of people
>to lower my taxes.

What a pathetic excuse, considering that "God" has to violate the "will of a lot of people" if he's helping you make money trading -- practically every trade you make has a person with another wish/prayer on the other side.

JB

 

[I am...]

Quote from jem:

What is the point of using the name Jesus if you dispute his teachings?

I could ask you the same question!

Quote from jem:

so prayer is useless except for asking for forgiveness? - do you just think the bible is always wrong?

How is the bible relevant to forgiveness?

Jesus

 

[jem]

Quote from I am...:

I could ask you the same question!



How is the bible relevant to forgiveness?

Jesus

I asked you to explain your statement --- the only reason to pray was for forgiveness.

But to answer your question takes a little background -- the whole point of the bible is that Adam and Eve fell because they disobeyed God - since the bible shows God to be true to his word - upon disobeying god they had to die - since they separated themselves from God.

The only back in was for God to send his Son to be the sinless sacrifice for all mankind. so his blood to cover their sins. To have him stand in our stead we must have faith and act on our faith.

Now Jesus forgave us for putting him through the terrible tribulation of the cross and told us to forgive others.

I guess thats the least we could do. But that is not the only reason for praying.

Jesus prayed to his father and he taught us the Our Father.

 

[andrasnm]

There is only one god, the Transcendental God of Infinity. This one god has many human representations , nevertheless it is all the same. It is not a personal god so it will not care if you show gratitude or not, gratitude is to be shown for its own sake and to show humility. It is not "for someone".

Quote from bigarrow:

Do you mean gratitude to the god you believe in or will just any old god do? Will gratitude to the Aztec sun god work? I'm looking forward to your answer.