Thank you ISE

BlueHorseshoe · Oct 9, 2003

It is really annoying to play nice with the floor traders at CBOE when spreading the OEX / SPX. Now ISE offers index options, and spreads are significantly better. Watch the trading volumes mushroom in the months ahead!

http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/031008/financial_exchanges_ise_1.html

ISE launches electronic index options trading
Wednesday October 8, 2:46 pm ET
By Doris Frankel

CHICAGO, Oct 8 (Reuters) - The International Securities Exchange, which earlier this year became the largest U.S. equity options exchange, said on Wednesday it has entered the index options arena.
The Chicago Board Options Exchange, the largest options marketplace and leader in index options, declined to comment.

The New York-based ISE, which launched its electronic platform in May 2000, said that the Standard & Poor's SmallCap 600 (SML) index was listed for trading on Oct â¦

vega · Oct 9, 2003

Gary Katz, ISE's chief operating officer, said the exchange is entering the index options market slowly because of circumstance and choice.

"While many investors have asked us to list the most actively traded index options, we cannot currently address those demands because we cannot procure licenses to trade these products," Katz said.

In other words, because the CBOE spent time, money, and took a chance getting and promoting these products-which are now extremely successful, we feel that on behalf of getting the investor better prices (but no profit motives for any exchanges of course) we should be allowed to steal these products away from the CBOE. Hey ISE, BOX, PHLX, PCX, AMEX, Go F#ck yourself !!!!!!!!!!!!!
:eek:

not-Bill Brodsky

Vega

Apologies for the venting today, just a little pissed off (I know, better than being pissed on:eek: )

resinate · Oct 9, 2003

Well Vega,

It appears that not too many here have learned to appreciate the profit opportunity uniquely available in an inefficient option market.

too bad.....

BlueHorseshoe · Oct 9, 2003

Don't worry Vega. Volume will leave the OEX/SPX until the CBOE decides it would rather receive licensing fees than nothing at all. It is just a matter of time. The invisible hand is a powerful force.

But don't let that ruin your day ...

resinate · Oct 9, 2003

Quote from BlueHorseshoe:

Don't worry Vega. Volume will leave the OEX/SPX until the CBOE decides it would rather receive licensing fees than nothing at all. It is just a matter of time. The invisible hand is a powerful force.

But don't let that ruin your day ...

No. CBOE will fight to keep its exclusive license with all their resources. I would be very surprised to see spx or oex options trading anywhere else soon.

vega · Oct 9, 2003

I left the CBOE over a year ago becuase business sucked, I was a MM in the SPX pit at the CBOE. Business will only pick up once the market really starts moving a lot, not just because the bid/ask is narrowed. If anything, in my opinion narrowing the spread hurts most in the business because you are actually decreasing the amount you can make, you can profit from wide markets even if you're off the floor, you just need to use limit orders and have a little patience. I realize the eventually everything will be electronic (another reason I left the floor, didn't want to be the last one there and have to turn off the lights:eek: ), and to be honest I don't really give a rats ass if the place does go belly up, and BlueHorseshoe--apologies in advance if I'm wrong, and this is not necessaryily directed at you--but I hate when people that have never made a market bitch about something being to wide. Trust me, when you make a tight market for a "customer," and get you head ripped off trying to hedge the trade, you quickly learn to make a wider market with the understanding that you may buy/sell inbetween those prices. I don't know what kind of size people here trade or the brokers they use, but assuming you trading less than 100 contracts, if you see a dollar wide market you can easily get filled 20 cents better on either side. If a 60 cent market on a 1000 dollar underlying is too wide for someone to make money, then you had better find another job.

Vega

resinate · Oct 9, 2003

Quote from vega:

......if anything, in my opinion narrowing the spread hurts most in the business because you are actually decreasing the amount you can make, you can profit from wide markets even if you're off the floor, you just need to use limit orders and have a little patience......

Vega

Vega, for some strange reason this is a well kept secret. Just be quiet.

vega · Oct 9, 2003

Quote from resinate:

Vega, for some strange reason this is a well kept secret. Just be quiet.

Mums the word.

Vega

BTW-- I mean, people are making more money since stocks started trading in pennies, right

---wrong !!!!!!!!!!!!! Let's see if we can kill all the markets.

BlueHorseshoe · Oct 9, 2003

Well, I've made markets in the futures pits, and I've missed hitting the B/A because orders are being held by the floor at the CBOE. The CBOE makes the rules to ensure the floor an edge. So now my volume is going to the ISE and I believe that over time a lot of other trading volume will follow.

No point in arguing it further. Let time and facts be the judge.

Quote from vega:

I left the CBOE over a year ago becuase business sucked, I was a MM in the SPX pit at the CBOE. Business will only pick up once the market really starts moving a lot, not just because the bid/ask is narrowed. If anything, in my opinion narrowing the spread hurts most in the business because you are actually decreasing the amount you can make, you can profit from wide markets even if you're off the floor, you just need to use limit orders and have a little patience. I realize the eventually everything will be electronic (another reason I left the floor, didn't want to be the last one there and have to turn off the lights:eek: ), and to be honest I don't really give a rats ass if the place does go belly up, and BlueHorseshoe--apologies in advance if I'm wrong, and this is not necessaryily directed at you--but I hate when people that have never made a market bitch about something being to wide. Trust me, when you make a tight market for a "customer," and get you head ripped off trying to hedge the trade, you quickly learn to make a wider market with the understanding that you may buy/sell inbetween those prices. I don't know what kind of size people here trade or the brokers they use, but assuming you trading less than 100 contracts, if you see a dollar wide market you can easily get filled 20 cents better on either side. If a 60 cent market on a 1000 dollar underlying is too wide for someone to make money, then you had better find another job.

Vega

StockApprentice · Oct 9, 2003

For remote traders, there is no doubt that ISE kicks a$$. Trying to trade over the CBOE's electronic market is complete BS. I've had too much crap happen for it to be a coincidence. Just do a search on some of my comments on other options threads if you're curious.

Also, while the spread can allow for a great degree of profitability, don't think for one minute that tighter spreads will hinder arbitrage opportunities...in fact, it seems to me that it may enhance them.