Testing 1,2,3.

[CQNC]

Quote from JamesBond007:

CQNC,

I don't quite follow why you went from thinking it couldn't be a scam to fully believing it is a scam.

correct me if i'm wrong. their criteria in selecting a trader is if one completes a 4 week tryout on a sim.

you only tested out the software for one day and didn't enter their 4 week tryout. so that means that they're a scam?

i'd appreciate a little more explanation b/c on their website it says one has to complete a 4 week tryout regardless of your trading background/expertise.

TIA.

Because I discussed not taking their test and instead we discuss, like any normal trading group or fund, reviewing my credentials and historical performance than doing their stupid test.

Trading play money, especially on futures, good lord, is no way to assess a trader's ability. And if that's how they do it, then they're not going to make enough money for me to waste my time working for them.

Take the test yourself instead of looking to someone else to do your dirty work.

 

[chicagotrader79]

Quote from CQNC:

Because I discussed not taking their test and instead we discuss, like any normal trading group or fund, reviewing my credentials and historical performance than doing their stupid test.

Trading play money, especially on futures, good lord, is no way to assess a trader's ability. And if that's how they do it, then they're not going to make enough money for me to waste my time working for them.

Take the test yourself instead of looking to someone else to do your dirty work.

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If you want to be a trader or have a firm back your trading methodology your past credentials don't mean jack. I think that is fairly obvious. Also if your historical performance was so great way are you not trading still for a firm or for your own account?

The simulator is what ALL firms in Chicago put their recruits on this groups has a good idea to keep over head low and search for the trader globally.. I personally was impressed when I saw it..

I've traded on the CBOT floor for years.. CQNC good luck with trading.. This is a performance business all firms/clearingfirms/prop groups etc want to see how you trade in a live market. Not a group out their would back you with their capital just off you credentials.. take the credentials to corporate. No disrespect but take another look at the industry your in.

 

[CQNC]

Quote from chicagotrader79:

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If you want to be a trader or have a firm back your trading methodology your past credentials don't mean jack. I think that is fairly obvious. Also if your historical performance was so great way are you not trading still for a firm or for your own account?

The simulator is what ALL firms in Chicago put their recruits on this groups has a good idea to keep over head low and search for the trader globally.. I personally was impressed when I saw it..

I've traded on the CBOT floor for years.. CQNC good luck with trading.. This is a performance business all firms/clearingfirms/prop groups etc want to see how you trade in a live market. Not a group out their would back you with their capital just off you credentials.. take the credentials to corporate. No disrespect but take another look at the industry your in.

Never said I wasn't trading my own account, and hello, logic, how else would I have a historical background? Just because I looked into this doesn't mean I'm looking to trade for that firm, or any futures firm. All I wanted to do was kick the tyres first, and they were dead flat, Patak was more interested in the application fee than my results. And yes, I agree live trading is the best way to assess a trader, but not with play money, and not on my time, paying them a fee for the priviledge of "working for them". Traders work for themselves, first and foremost, not the firm providing the leverage capital. Wasting four weeks of my time live on a rigged simulator is not going to prove squat in a live real-money market situation.

And any idiot can figure out their software. Simple point and click. Don't need to learn any secret handshakes or bird calls to make trades.

I don't buy into this simulator idea, and I don't believe anyone else worth their salt should either. It's a "fly into the light" scam, brings in tons of cash from the suckers trying to get their first trading gig, if one in a thousand should breaks through the net, good for them, but the other 999 are paying for the cost of running the site and trading capital if a scout should set them up with a live money account. I've heard it's nearer to jack shit than the holy grail. It's brilliant, really. I wish I were that unscrupulous so as to pull it off.

Let me put it another way:

If I put a gun to your head, the choice being knowing if it's loaded or not knowing if it's unloaded, which scenario are you going to shit your pants more likely?

 

[jd_harris]

Just a question here...

But if they're asking you to use your strategies in thier simulator for an entire month, wouldn't they be able to derive your strategies from the data in the simulator and use them for themselves, while then kick'n you to the curb and claiming it as thier own 'proprietary' model(s)?

Now, if they are requiring you to trade thier strategies on thier simulator.. no problem... in additoin, it'd be a great way to test thier methods for a profit. Kinda savvy, imo.

 

[CQNC]

Quote from jd_harris:

Just a question here...

But if they're asking you to use your strategies in thier simulator for an entire month, wouldn't they be able to derive your strategies from the data in the simulator and use them for themselves, while then kick'n you to the curb and claiming it as thier own 'proprietary' model(s)?

Now, if they are requiring you to trade thier strategies on thier simulator.. no problem... in additoin, it'd be a great way to test thier methods for a profit. Kinda savvy, imo.

No idea how they would derive your strategies from the data, not knowing the whys behind the decisions. It seems like a lot of work when it would just be easier to hire the trader that executed them. But the I don't for a second believe this is what it
s intended for. I think it's a cash cow to reel in suckers.

 

[Maverick74]

Not a chance that any self respecting prop firm would use as little as 4 weeks of data to figure a strategy is robust. Most these firms want to see thousands of data points over long periods of time over a variety of markets. What the hell could someone discern from 4 weeks of random data?

 

[CQNC]

Quote from Maverick74:

Not a chance that any self respecting prop firm would use as little as 4 weeks of data to figure a strategy is robust. Most these firms want to see thousands of data points over long periods of time over a variety of markets. What the hell could someone discern from 4 weeks of random data?

My point exactly.
Whereas if I handed them a database of 5 years of consistent data, with matching references to major news events to substantiate major volatility moves, that, to me at least, is useful and discernable to a trader's ability. That and talking to him in person, or watching him trade on a test real money account for a few months. The way I see it, throwing $10K over 3-4 months is a minimal investment in someone with the potential to make ten times that on a larger capital account if their strategies and market intelligence are sound.

 

[operator]

Quote from Maverick74:

Not a chance that any self respecting prop firm would use as little as 4 weeks of data to figure a strategy is robust. Most these firms want to see thousands of data points over long periods of time over a variety of markets. What the hell could someone discern from 4 weeks of random data?

Of course looking at 1000's of points of data over a long period of time is best, but how would you recommend they recruit smart young talent (i.e. college grads) that may not have that type of data?

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from operator:

Of course looking at 1000's of points of data over a long period of time is best, but how would you recommend they recruit smart young talent (i.e. college grads) that may not have that type of data?

They do what they have been doing for the last 50 years. They recruit the smartest guys from the top 10 schools. There use to be an emphasis on economics with minor in stats or math. Now they are looking primarily for stats, science and math majors with graduate degrees. The system seems to work. They basically look for kids that don't know to fail at anything. If you are not one of them, you better be bringing some great trading sheets to the table.

 

[chicagotrader79]

Most if not all prop groups in Chicago put traders on simulator. yeah its not 100% the same but it does see how well that recruit can trade. How he holds his position manages his account etc..

From what I see you can trade however you want outright spreads etc.. if your method is profitable they back you. Sounds straight forward.

I've traded for years and all I know is I spent thousands on figuring out the learning curve of trading.. if this program or a farm program had been around 10 years ago and you said I could get in the trenches and trade a live market risk free use whatever strategy I wanted to implement in the market.. then if my ass is good I go live plus refunded my deposit (which i believe it is).. sign me up.. hell I was dumb enough to save up $2,500 dollars and go to a bs online trading academy class when I was 23. Not all new young eager traders have that.

If you can't tell I am still bitter about the $2,500 OTA class. lol