TESLA & BTC

[Baron]

Now why would someone who lives in garbage currency country move to Bitcoin? Because it's a safer investment? Bitcoin swings 50% one way or another in matter of days and weeks and months. Is it because government can't reach it for tax purposes? That's precisely what Bitcoin shouldn't be if it wants to have legitimacy. Is it because it's safer from being stolen?

• It's secure.
• It's decentralized.
• It's unhackable.
• It's in YOUR possession (wallet).
• If you want to move it, you can move it anywhere on the globe and in any amount within a matter of minutes.
• It's money supply is fixed so the money supply can't be tampered with.
• It's appreciated on average 160% per year for over a decade.
• It has become a trillion-dollar asset faster than any other asset in the history of mankind.

And the best part of all is that the benefits listed above apply to everyone on the globe equally, regardless of what country they live in.

 

[virtusa]

So your bank charges you nothing for international wire transfers?

Not for the wires that I make.

The only thing that matters is what makes a difference for me. I am not interested in knowing how much I should pay for payments that I never make.

I just checked for a wire transfer EURO to USD in the US. Depending on the amount, the total cost is between 0.41% and 0.28 %. BTC moves a multiple of that, so many times you will lose much more in value than the "safe" wire transfer fee.

If I have to switch to BTC to make a payment that the receiver has to switch again to USD, it will cost me much more. If the BTC would move more then 0.28% in the wrong direction the BTC payment will already be more expensive than the EURO/USD one. When I was still working I made payments all over the world in several different currencies. Our business was in EURO, so using BTC would only create extra risk and extra work. The receivers had their business in USD or any other fiat currencies. Nobody ever asked payments in BTC. This "cheap wire transfer" makes no sense for the majority of people, but also for the majority of companies. I still have to read about the first company that is working entirely in BTC (all income and all expenses). If BTC is such a money saving miracle, these companies should already exist since a long time.

I already said:I guess that the average American even makes less than 1% of his payments by international wire transfer.
That shows that BTC is not interesting for payments, it is only popular for gambling purposes and to get quickly rich. Remove the volatility and BTC will be dead soon as all the gamblers will go elsewhere.

 

[mokwit]

1.5 billion unbanked people

This is the Bitcoin pitch - 1.5bn who are outside the system will adopt Bitcoin.

First you acted like the unbanked argument was nonsense, and then I showed you a map with countries all over the earth with over 1.5 billion unbanked people. So you ignore the map and act like I'm just talking about Nigeria or El Salvador. Look at the orange dots and tell me if that's "a few basket case dysfunctional countries".

Furthermore, I'm sure if you lived in Greece, Turkey, Argentina, or many other countries that have experienced collapsing currencies and corrupt governments, you'd probably have a different outlook. An unbanked person doesn't have to be broke or in a remote location. They could easily be someone that has money but no confidence to store their resources in their own country's financial system. Bitcoin represents hope for these people that their money won't just go poof and get stolen overnight.

OK got it, the map is definitive proof that Bitcoin will become the currency of the 1.5bn unbanked and my and others on the ground views based experience means nothing.

I lived through a currency that collapsed from 25 to 55 to the $ in a morning. I note that If I thought that was going to happen again I would not consider Bitcoin as any kind of solution other than as a way of transferring money out in the face of capital controls and then as a last resort as I notice Bitcoin also has had a 50% peak to trough draw down in a matter of hours - I would convert to Bitcoin immediately ahead of the transfer. I consider it completely inappropriate as a store of value and no hedge against inflation. Despite a previous currency collapse, nobody here considers Bitcoin as anything other than a speculative trading vehicle.

I was also in S America in the '80's, the situation on the ground was as the one described by Virtusa.

The "Bitcoin will become the currency of 1.5b unbanked people" pitch IS nonsense in my opinion, as are the many claims and projections for Bitcoin. Bitcoin people are buying a pitch and someone is selling them the Bitcoin.

 

[virtusa]

Quick question. If you don't have any interest in crypto whatsoever and you think it's all risky and worthless for much of anything, why do you keep participating in all these crypto threads?

Because everybody can have/communicate his own opinion. We call that discussion.
I don't have BTC and I explain why so that people can form their own opinion on info from both sides.
I am consequent. It would be hilarious to be against BTC and have a wallet.

I also think it is not normal that only people who are pro something should be allowed to give their opinion. Because that would lead to one sided information, and that is always bad. That would look like "democratic countries" like Russia and North Korea. In these countries there is a onesided "democracy".

 

[Baron]

The "Bitcoin will become the currency of 1.5b unbanked people" pitch IS nonsense in my opinion, as are the many claims and projections for Bitcoin. Bitcoin people are buying a pitch and someone is selling them the Bitcoin.

And all the people that have bought into the "pitch" over the years are looking at this as the result of their choice:

So my question to you is this: If the chart of this instrument doesn't do it for you, can you please show me something else that checks all of your boxes and that you think is better?

 

[Baron]

Because everybody can have/communicate his own opinion. We call that discussion.
I don't have BTC and I explain why so that people can form their own opinion on info from both sides.
I am consequent. It would be hilarious to be against BTC and have a wallet.

I also think it is not normal that only people who are pro something should be allowed to give their opinion. Because that would lead to one sided information, and that is always bad. That would look like "democratic countries" like Russia and North Korea. In these countries there is a onesided "democracy".

I get what you're saying but it just seems like it's a huge waste of your own time if you don't have any interest in crypto to begin with.

 

[virtusa]

It's appreciated on average 160% per year for over a decade.

Can you show the calculation, because I think it is far less. BTC was around 9.57 10 years ago (day to day).

 

[virtusa]

I get what you're saying but it just seems like it's a huge waste of your own time if you don't have any interest in crypto to begin with.

I post while I have free time watching my ES trades. I have nothing to do besides of waiting till I can close my position. So it is not wasted time as I have to stay in front of my screens.
I feel that BTC is a scam and want to wake up the dreamers. I know several who woke up and they had no happy feeling. And no happy ending...

For people who believe in BTC it is wasted time too. What is the use for them? They can use that time to go to the beach or the fitness. Unless they come to post to catch new cannon meat for the next ride.

 

[mokwit]

And all the people that have bought into the "pitch" over the years are looking at this as the result of their choice:

View attachment 259631

So my question to you is this: If the chart of this instrument doesn't do it for you, can you please show me something else that checks all of your boxes and that you think is better?

Are we talking trading or holding the bulk of your assets in crypto because you are the kind of unbanked person who "needs" Bitcoin - at least according to Bitcoin enthusiasts who have decided how good it must be for you over there on the other side of the world.?

It's a log chart and so doesn't show the huge drawdowns from the 5 or so peaks on the way to where we are now. If you are actually using Bitcoin as a store of value for ALL/most your funds rather than as a punt with 1% of you assets those drawdowns are a huge deal - as with currencies they can come right at the point where you have to make a large transfer.

How was it for somebody who converted all their Turkish Lire into Bitcoin at $60,000 and now TODAY has a large payment to make? He would have been better off in USD.

 

[johnarb]

virtusa-is-a-LIAR is jealous of people who invested in cryptos. He's a loser trader

https://elitetrader.com/et/threads/the-futility-of-crypto-diversification.358795/page-7#post-5390772


https://elitetrader.com/et/threads/crypto-whales.358912/#post-5391105