Team Obama admits it's a matter of race

[PHOENIX TRADING]

Quote from Ricter:

Jim Crow ended much more recently, and though the two subsequent generations are working to catch up, so are the generations that started out ahead also working. Thus, the differential persists. It's not an excuse for bad behavior, but such differentials always and everywhere lead to trouble, but particularly if they are perceived to be unfair, i.e. illegitimate.

That's complete horse shit , in 2 generations immigrants that want to make something of themselves overcome even more obstacles (namely language and educational deficits).

Comparatively jim crow has nothing to do with it except in the minds of the excuse makers.

 

[FixedGrin]

Quote from wildchild:


I will give you a great example. I recently went to a large indoor market in Baltimore. The patrons of the market were about 75% black and the people selling from their shops were almost all asian. WTF? If you went and bought something the asians all spoke broken english and it was quite obvious they lived the majority of their lives in another country. They came here and they are busting their tail for a better live. They had no head start, they face discrimination, they face people trying to take advantage of them, they are in a completely foreign place, but they succeed. If that guy is getting off the boat from asia with no money and broken english, and 5 years later he doing better then you, sorry but you are a loser.

Thanks wildchild, for mentioning a race other than black or white. Black people were never the only minority in the US (yes, Asians were a very tiny percent of the US population since the beginning, in very few areas, but don't forget about Native Americans), and they are no longer the largest minority group in the US. It disgusts me that black groups, such as the NAACP, act like it's only black people in the US facing adversity. This frustration is compounded by the fact that, statistically speaking, black communities wilt while facing challenges, especially challenges that involve bettering their communities. African Americans are raised in the US speaking English fluently, and for better or worse, live in communities full of their own people. Asians often immigrate to the US with very few English skills, inhibiting where they can find employment. Once they are settled in the US, they often move out of major cities with large Asian populations to suburbs with smaller communities or no Asian communities at all, thus less support groups. Why is it that with less, Asians statistically accomplish more when they also have minority status?

 

[PHOENIX TRADING]

Quote from FixedGrin:

Thanks wildchild, for mentioning a race other than black or white. Black people were never the only minority in the US (yes, Asians were a very tiny percent of the US population since the beginning, in very few areas, but don't forget about Native Americans), and they are no longer the largest minority group in the US. It disgusts me that black groups, such as the NAACP, act like it's only black people in the US facing adversity. This frustration is compounded by the fact that, statistically speaking, black communities wilt while facing challenges, especially challenges that involve bettering their communities. African Americans are raised in the US speaking English fluently, and for better or worse, live in communities full of their own people. Asians often immigrate to the US with very few English skills, inhibiting where they can find employment. Once they are settled in the US, they often move out of major cities with large Asian populations to suburbs with smaller communities or no Asian communities at all, thus less support groups. Why is it that with less, Asians statistically accomplish more when they also have minority status?

quite frankly because the Asians in general who self select themselves have IQ's apx 1.75 standard deviations above homegrown blacks. Couple that with the right societal values and you get the results you have observed.

 

[Ricter]

On the other hand, a lot of the immigrants I see around here, who are neither white, black, or yellow, have, when they get here, more money than I do.

 

[FixedGrin]

Quote from PHOENIX TRADING:

quite frankly because the Asians in general who self select themselves have IQ's apx 1.75 standard deviations above homegrown blacks. Couple that with the right societal values and you get the results you have observed.

Well, I guess my question is less of 'why are Asians successful?' and more like 'why do blacks have a head start* but don't achieve as much?' and 'to what extent does racism really play in the success of communities?' Are these questions politically incorrect?

*Here is the head start that applies to the advantages of Black Americans over Asian immigrants (you'll notice that these don't always apply to American born Asians)
-Fluency in English
-access to public education for k-12
-subsidized tuition for state universities
-access to healthcare
-understanding of American culture and art and media forms

 

[wildchild]

Quote from Ricter:

The majority of those were not subject to Jim Crow. And typically immigrants don't thrive so much as they survive. Their children do better.

They survive on their own while being put at a rather large disadvantage unlike some others who are looking for a constant handout and complaining that its not fair.

 

[CaptainObvious]

So we have some discussion and while some of it has a harsh edge to it, I think it's more out of frustration than racist. It can be summed up with one single question. What's taking so long? That is the underlying frustration, usually unspoken, of the general white population with the general black population. At least that's what I see and hear.
Blacks seem to talk of Jim Crow as if it were last week. It's been decades. Opportunites have been presented through Affirmative Action, educational opportunites, business opportunites, etc., and it seems these programs are not be utilized to their fullest extent.
These are undoubtly tough questions and the knee jerk reaction is to be defensive when put on the spot, but at some point we must address these issues cause it sure as hell isn't getting any better ignoring them.

 

[Ricter]

Quote from CaptainObvious:

So we have some discussion and while some of it has a harsh edge to it, I think it's more out of frustration than racist. It can be summed up with one single question. What's taking so long? .

The One Percenters, and the Point One Percenters might ask you the same, why aren't you keeping up with their gains?

 

[jem]

Quote from Ricter:

The One Percenters, and the Point One Percenters might ask you the same, why aren't you keeping up with their gains?

other than the underclass america has a fluid society.
Many non wealthy become become wealthy in U.S.


The only class which is stuck is the underclass.
And that underclass used to have thriving businesses which catered to it and some nice communities.

The people didn't change... the government did. The democrats did.
The incentives did... taking the dads out of the community did.

 

[Ricter]

Quote from jem:

other than the underclass america has a fluid society.
Many non wealthy become become wealthy in U.S.

"Socio-economic mobility in the United States refers to the movement of Americans from one social class or economic level to another,[1] often by changing jobs or marrying. This "vertical" mobility can be the change in socioeconomic status between parents and children ("inter-generational"); or over the course of a lifetime ("intra-generational").[2] It typically refers to "relative mobility" — the chance that an American's income/status will rise or fall compared to others in a another income/status group[3] -- but can also be "absolute" -- whether (and by how much) living standards in America have increased.

Belief in strong social and economic mobility -- that Americans can and do rise from humble origins to riches -- has been called a "civil religion",[4] "the bedrock upon which the American story has been anchored",[5] and part of the American identity (the American Dream[6]), celebrated in the lives of famous Americans such as Benjamin Franklin and Henry Ford,[4] and in popular culture (from the books of Horatio Alger and Norman Vincent Peale to the song "Movin' on Up"[7]). Opinion polls show this belief to be both stronger now in America than in years past, and stronger than in other developed countries.[8] However, in recent years several large studies have found that vertical inter-generational mobility is lower, not higher, in America than in those countries.[4]"

From: Socio-economic mobility in the United States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio-economic_mobility_in_the_United_States