Teaching A 5 Year Old How To Trade

[Alpha Trader]

@felixbocharov @NoBias @Vindago @Jamie J. @Chris Mac @Hooter

I thank you for your concern and value your opinion. It is people like you that have helped see me things even better via your concerns/criticisms. This in turn is keeping me in check as I try and teach him. On the flip side of why I want to teach my son at such an early age, I have to say that the post above by @Maverickz explains it really well. I have (from your concerns) been hyper-alert in making sure he stays a kid.

To take this further, those in the "no" camp feel that it is too early to expose him to "serious" stuff at this age and that love and care (and "good" parenting) is done via sharing "good" time with your kids. Him playing soccer is as good a time as him learning how to trade. My dad spent a lot of quality time with me, but by the time I was a little older, I did not want to spend any constructive time with him. Friends and play had become more important and learning/mastering things of value felt like imprisonment (on the rare occasion when it was introduced).

As a father, he has a need to play, but also has to understand that life is not a flat road to the sparkly rainbow. If that is the impression he gets, he will rebel "productivity" later as a stage was never set for him. Also, this opens the doors for corporate to get him into the 9-5 "slavery", which so many hate and these days it pays even less. Our economies are global and someone out there will code, produce etc. for you at a fraction of the price than here in the US.

My other reason for starting him early will be included in the posts to follow (and it is showing good promise for now).

 

[Alpha Trader]

Below is a PM I got from one of the member. He has asked me to respct his anonimity, but is okay with sharing his PM.

Great thread. I wanted to PM but you're free to post this on the thread if you like - just don't credit me with the response.

I am going this route with my kids as well, when they are ready. I have five total and believe all of them could handle the stresses of trading, but only two of them would be best suited. the fifth is too young for me to make that decision just yet.

I learned from a Canadian trader about a decade ago. His work is available to the public, although I'll never understand why. It took me several years to fully grasp it. In the last ~2 years, I expanded on it myself and simplified much of it to get a better understanding of what he was seeing. It ended up working very well because now I am teaching my wife how to trade using it. I won't bore you with the details, but it's basically color-based, geometric (and thus universal to any underlying), and repeatable. The patterns are constant after I figured out how to frame them in a consistent manner. I did this for a lot of obvious reasons, but one of the side effects was that I realized I can give it to any of them and they'll get it within a month enough to be profitable for the rest of their lives. Of course it'd be around 6-12 for them to fully master it, maybe even longer, but using a few simple color sequences to determine beginning & ending of a trend gives them the gift of unlimited money. It's simple, it's straightforward, and it will always work.

My point with all of this info is that perhaps this is a direction you could take with your teaching. When one of my oldest was a lot younger, she would watch the price ticks on my platforms and called it "the bouncy man." (lol) She doesn't remember that now but that's the way they see this stuff. I think she was 5-6 at the time.

Not only would I encourage it, I would really push it at this age. They're fresh. They're not jaded. They're not critical towards the world, towards the politicians, towards the government, towards people in general, and won't make a ton of excuses as to why they failed. (broker cheating me, market makers running my stops, etc). none of that BS. Make it simple enough to understand, but complex enough for them to take it seriously when the time really comes, and to let them know that this isn't some gimmicky vendor-level BS that they can blindly trust.

Be real with yours. Tell them what's possible, good and bad. Make it a very long-term process so they're not overwhelmed, but also so that they're able to see why we as traders do what we do. Then show them the paths to get to the bad, and the paths to get to the good. That process has served me pretty well as a parent so far.

 

[Alpha Trader]

And extracts of my response to him/her:

believe all of them could handle the stresses of trading

IMHO, I think the stresses that are associated with sociological factors which pertain to adults (money, ego etc.). The other main contributor to stress is a lack of methodology and discipline. Both these are so much easier for kids to avoid as kids are not impacted by the silliness of society and following instructions for them is the norm. Is there other aspects I may be missing which you think may contribute to stress?

but only two of them would be best suited.

What criteria are you using for this?. I'd be quite interested to hear your view.

I won't bore you with the details, but it's basically color-based, geometric (and thus universal to any underlying), and repeatable. The patterns are constant after I figured out how to frame them in a consistent manner.

From this description, I think our styles are very different. I am more price action (almost exclusive) and I have chosen that method for a reason. It allows me to get sharp entry/exit points and allows me to exit or collect profits depending how the trade behaves. Other methods I have tried tend to have a lower win:lose ratio. Regardless, I know that there are plenty of methods that work and each is adopted this his/her method.

What I like with your method is the constant nature of it. In that case it can be coded or passed over (as you mentioned); mine on the other hand requires "babying" and teaching it to someone is really hard work, because they have to see what I see. However, once understood, there is great value to it.

When one of my oldest was a lot younger, she would watch the price ticks on my platforms and called it "the bouncy man." (lol)

I agree. Their motivation is not money and so some kind of goal needs to be there to have them interested. Mine calls them simply as bulls and bears. They fight with each other and most often try and trick each other so they can win. They also (individually) fight with us and we can be allies and foes with each.............and change our mind whenever we want.

However, I don't think this has helped much as he now is vested to win and will wait to see the direction of where the trade is going at which point the R:R is pretty skewed. However, when I showed him particular setups, he has done extremely well with them and it has a surprisingly very high expectancy. I am keeping my eyes on this and seeing how I can develop it further.

Not only would I encourage it, I would really push it at this age. They're fresh. They're not jaded. They're not critical towards the world, towards the politicians, towards the government, towards people in general, and won't make a ton of excuses as to why they failed. (broker cheating me, market makers running my stops, etc). none of that BS.

This is a very similar ideology that I mentioned earlier about no social impact. I completely agree with you on this and am actually seeing it through him of how he has no bias (besides "winning").

 

[J_Smith]

I watched "The Imitation Game " last nite - brilliant film, but as always, after checking out Alan Touring's brief biography, the film of course does not portray the actual events - which is to be expected.

Turing is the Father of the modern day algo traders - but his thoughts on the human mind are also very interesting - I plan to read up on some of his papers.

So, apart from the algo traders, how is this information relative to the thread discussion - imho, it is extremely relevant if you are hoping to educate some of your children about "the realities of trading based on logic and reasoning".

To keep it simple, as that is what children understand best -"there is a reason for everything that happens", BUT, our minds are such, that without "the proper (logical) way of analysing and deducing", then we really do not know why the outcome is what it is - in other words, for the child - "everything is not always as it appears to be", which is another way of saying "uncertainty".

If you want your child to succeed, then, I think you must engrave the word "uncertainty" into their brain - it will save them a lot of time, effort, and in the future, money - which is the whole purpose of the "game".

Beware of what others say and do - it can put you on the wrong path completely - always use logical reasoning, which a child has a natural tendancy to do, which is clearly shown from the "silly" questions they ask.

BTW, that means ME as well !!!!!!

J_S

 

[Xela]

I watched "The Imitation Game " last nite - brilliant film, but as always, after checking out Alan Touring's brief biography, the film of course does not portray the actual events - which is to be expected.

So did I (the night before, when it was broadcast - you must have recorded it?). To be expected, yes ... "cinematographic licence" etc.

I enjoyed it very much and thought it was considerably better than most of the reviews had led me to believe.

It was a good part for Cumberbatch. In many senses similar to his "Sherlock" role: he seems a natural for playing "high-functioning sociopaths" (which Turing clearly was, as well as a genius. And probably Richard III was as well, at least in Shakespeare's portrayal of him. All good "Cumberbatch territory".)

If you want your child to succeed, then, I think you must engrave the word "uncertainty" into their brain - it will save them a lot of time, effort, and in the future, money - which is the whole purpose of the "game".

Indeed. Absolutely - and I'd say the same for most adults who try to "learn trading" (and many other aspects of "everyday life", too!).

It's the people who want and expect certainty and love and need to "Be Right", above all else, who turn into hopeless cases. (Most relevant to this forum, too, since it shows pretty unmistakably in the way they argue.)

 

[J_Smith]

Anyone who has spent some time actually trading - as in trading meaning, "placing live trades with uncertain outcomes" - knows that it makes not one little bit of difference what any other person "knows", or "does".

Of course one can "learn" from others, but the reality is that it means nothing, for, the "key" to making money, be it over a day, a week, a month, a year, or a decade - is to keep trading with a defined % risk per trade that will enable you "stay in the game".

You do not have to be Alan Turing, or any other prodigy, to realize this fact - you just need some experience with frugality (means to accumulate cash), and results from trading live ( probabilities of trading).

A child really can do it - why, because it is so simple - but it is always the simplest things in life, that are by far the hardest things to do.

This is why studing the brain and human behavior can be very advantageous to trading. I have come up with my own term for it, and that is - "it is all in the head".

It really is amazing how History repeats itself, and in order to see how, one of course must look into History - words are useless without actions - Turing was a firm believer in this, and rightly so, as most just "talk" and do nothing, which is as clear as day to those with some experience.

The "first" thing you "should" do, if serious about teaching any person to "trade", child or adult, is to "get" them to learn how to lose "correctly".

Look after the losers and the winners will look after themselves.

Reality is - for most this will never happen, as, there are very few that are willing, and able, to go against the "crowd" - watch the film for the prime example of same - History does indeed repeat itself, each and every day!

J_S

 

[J_Smith]

As always, never believe what you see or hear, until you "check it out", and get all the facts.

Turing was the brains behind the math and the logic, but it was a team effort that led to the breakthrough in the Polish designed "bombe" machine - along with the sinking of U-599 by british aircraft off the Azores in Oct 1942, which led to the important discovery of enigma coding papers.

History is very interesting

J_S

wikipedia

 

[murray t turtle]

You really want to teach your 5 years old son to learn gun safety???? NRA's craziness.
Thanks God, in the US, less and less people think like you.


CM

%%
Depends on the maturity of the kid. Some can read WSJ or better IBD,@ age 5.I read starting about age 7; so it takes all kinds to make a market.Thank the Lord NRA membership is growing+ gun sales really trending up. I cant read Mav's mind[thoughts] like you pretend to; but he is right on his words.Thanks

 

[llIHeroic]

Look after the losers and the winners will look after themselves.

@J_Smith , this statement of yours really resonated with me. I think it is a concise gem packing a lot of wisdom.

I strongly believe the value of detachment is very important in trading. If an individual cares too much about their own self-validation, or about making money, those desires will inevitably create emotions that will interfere greatly with trading. And it's been proven to death that we can't simply out-will our emotions and their affect on our thought processes.

So many people, myself definitely included, often have an inner scarcity, even a desperation within them that causes us to crave comfort and validation in all the wrong places. I've found this to consistently be the heart of many vices like substances abuse, excess in general, broken relationships, and more.

For a long time, and even still, I've had a very strong desire to succeed at trading. I've poured so much time and energy into it that I just want to be validated by success. I've tied trading success to my individual sense of worth. This evokes a deep-seated fear of failure in me when I enter periods of more frequent losses (which are inevitable) that really erodes my discipline and rational decision making process. Wanting to succeed in trading too strongly (in a disordered way) actually degrades my ability to do so! Even blatant intellectual acknowledgement of that fact doesn't cease to make it true!

Self-awareness, patience, and honestly are all huge and necessary components of trading success for me. I often have to take a step back and refocus when I notice myself falling into bad pattern. Even take some time off. The minute I stop taking my losses with calmness and acceptance, my whole performance begins to unravel. Maybe there is a day where the experienced trader becomes confident and successful enough to be immune to the difficulties I've discussed, but for me, managing my emotional capital properly is definitely a major cornerstone of this business.

 

[J_Smith]

Look after the losers and the winners will look after themselves.

@J_Smith , this statement of yours really resonated with me. I think it is a concise gem packing a lot of wisdom.

I strongly believe the value of detachment is very important in trading. If an individual cares too much about their own self-validation, or about making money, those desires will inevitably create emotions that will interfere greatly with trading. And it's been proven to death that we can't simply out-will our emotions and their affect on our thought processes.

So many people, myself definitely included, often have an inner scarcity, even a desperation within them that causes us to crave comfort and validation in all the wrong places. I've found this to consistently be the heart of many vices like substances abuse, excess in general, broken relationships, and more.

For a long time, and even still, I've had a very strong desire to succeed at trading. I've poured so much time and energy into it that I just want to be validated by success. I've tied trading success to my individual sense of worth. This evokes a deep-seated fear of failure in me when I enter periods of more frequent losses (which are inevitable) that really erodes my discipline and rational decision making process. Wanting to succeed in trading too strongly (in a disordered way) actually degrades my ability to do so! Even blatant intellectual acknowledgement of that fact doesn't cease to make it true!

Self-awareness, patience, and honestly are all huge and necessary components of trading success for me. I often have to take a step back and refocus when I notice myself falling into bad pattern. Even take some time off. The minute I stop taking my losses with calmness and acceptance, my whole performance begins to unravel. Maybe there is a day where the experienced trader becomes confident and successful enough to be immune to the difficulties I've discussed, but for me, managing my emotional capital properly is definitely a major cornerstone of this business.

Sometimes the things that hold you back, are the simplest things!

ABC=123

History is indeed a very good teacher - but one must read up on History, as one can not discover anything of real value without time and effort - but must be time and effort well spent, not wasting endless hours on the world wide web!

The Mind Game - one of the best books you will ever read in relation to succeeding at trading!

http://www.sps186.org/downloads/books/530499/530499_1431368904.pdf

J_S