As much as I believe in NLP and the power of Positive Thinking think The Secret and making it a reality are too very different things. Most black in ghettos will never make it to Fortune 1000 CEO or president and both of us know that. Fill in the black, I have nothing against blacks, you could put white trash rednecks in there just as easily.
Teachers Unions & poor education in America
- Thread starter hippie
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As much as I believe in NLP and the power of Positive Thinking think The Secret and making it a reality are too very different things. Most black in ghettos will never make it to Fortune 1000 CEO or president and both of us know that. Fill in the black, I have nothing against blacks, you could put white trash rednecks in there just as easily.
Why do people in Western logic make blatant flaws trying to find one point for failure or success. Don't people realize its' cumulative?
My Mom taught for 35 years, mostly rich kids and some poor Hispanic in the end and the district was opened up for easy transfer.
Some of her notable students. Sean Green, LA Dodger, Mathew Lillard of Scream. Both were AP kids.
She had advance placement kids and regular kids. You know how much harder working and smarter the AP kids were. Their parents, many of the immigrants paid for extra tutoring whatever it took. The had a competitive, can do attitude. They had higher IQ's, worked hard, and had a good family environment. They had money and access to better resources. Be a part of family of winners and you are more likely to be one. Darwinism. Its cumulative. Stop pointing to one factor its a major fallacy in logic.
Guess how many of the parents of poor Hispanic kids showed up for parent teach conference? Not many because they could barely keep food on the table. The had little idea what their kids did after school. They have a bad social environment they grew up with parent that can't even speak the language of the Nation? How does that foster advancement? Do I blame the parents? No they are generally doing the best they can.
How do I know, because I worked in a neighboring community with these same types of kids in a group home for juvenile offenders. Bad parenting, bad environment, unwanted, lack of money and resources, its cumulative. When you have so many factors stacked against you the odds are low for success.
Why should other kids suffer from special needs kids being mainstreamed? They shouldn't. Why do we want to cut PE when we have obesity run rampant? How f'ing stupid.
Why do we force kids in the same direction. My wife, very smart, from Europe was tested at equivalent 8th grade. You test bad you get a vocation you test good you are prepared for college. Not everyone is made for college, that's fine. We need mechanics, hair stylists, etc. Why make people indentured servants to learn a trade. Why not us our tax dollars and channel their passions or not force them towards college when they are not educationally motivated.
Are there bad teachers? Hell yes my Mom said some should have been fired. She was against tenure. In the 80's they mad 35k, big whop for 60 hours a week, that included grading tests and parent conferences, etc.
My Mom taught for 35 years, mostly rich kids and some poor Hispanic in the end and the district was opened up for easy transfer.
Some of her notable students. Sean Green, LA Dodger, Mathew Lillard of Scream. Both were AP kids.
She had advance placement kids and regular kids. You know how much harder working and smarter the AP kids were. Their parents, many of the immigrants paid for extra tutoring whatever it took. The had a competitive, can do attitude. They had higher IQ's, worked hard, and had a good family environment. They had money and access to better resources. Be a part of family of winners and you are more likely to be one. Darwinism. Its cumulative. Stop pointing to one factor its a major fallacy in logic.
Guess how many of the parents of poor Hispanic kids showed up for parent teach conference? Not many because they could barely keep food on the table. The had little idea what their kids did after school. They have a bad social environment they grew up with parent that can't even speak the language of the Nation? How does that foster advancement? Do I blame the parents? No they are generally doing the best they can.
How do I know, because I worked in a neighboring community with these same types of kids in a group home for juvenile offenders. Bad parenting, bad environment, unwanted, lack of money and resources, its cumulative. When you have so many factors stacked against you the odds are low for success.
Why should other kids suffer from special needs kids being mainstreamed? They shouldn't. Why do we want to cut PE when we have obesity run rampant? How f'ing stupid.
Why do we force kids in the same direction. My wife, very smart, from Europe was tested at equivalent 8th grade. You test bad you get a vocation you test good you are prepared for college. Not everyone is made for college, that's fine. We need mechanics, hair stylists, etc. Why make people indentured servants to learn a trade. Why not us our tax dollars and channel their passions or not force them towards college when they are not educationally motivated.
Are there bad teachers? Hell yes my Mom said some should have been fired. She was against tenure. In the 80's they mad 35k, big whop for 60 hours a week, that included grading tests and parent conferences, etc.
you are entitled to your opinion that teachers work 60 hours a week or was your mother a major exception.
"In the 80's they mad 35k, big whop for 60 hours a week, that included grading tests and parent conferences, etc." that was 25 years ago. what does a teacher with equivalent experience make today? you are using an old statistical trick.
however since most teachers are in school for 38 hours /week it is doubtful that they are spending 22 hrs a week in extra work.
the bottom line is that students who are the product of public education cannot be considered educated. teachers should be paid accordingly.
"In the 80's they mad 35k, big whop for 60 hours a week, that included grading tests and parent conferences, etc." that was 25 years ago. what does a teacher with equivalent experience make today? you are using an old statistical trick.
however since most teachers are in school for 38 hours /week it is doubtful that they are spending 22 hrs a week in extra work.
the bottom line is that students who are the product of public education cannot be considered educated. teachers should be paid accordingly.
Years ago I attended the 25th anniversary of the opening of a Jr. High school... having attended the first year it was opened as a 7th grader.
Some of the same teachers were still there. One made the comment, "You kids wanted to learn and worked.... the problems were mostly running in the halls and chewing gum in class. Now, we teachers are more like wardens..."
Don't discount the amount of time that the teachers have to work outside of school hours. It was totally overwhelming for me. Lesson planning, getting a grasp of the material and how to present it, checking homework, updating the grade book, grading tests, preparing tests....
I realized it wasn't the job for me because every Sunday was all about getting ready for the week ahead. sucked.
Years ago, all you needed in Ontario to become a Teacher, was your high school diploma and one year of Teacher's College. It was relatively easy to become a teacher. The standards were raised many years ago so that you needed a university degree before you could apply to teacher's college. With the help of Teachers' Union the wages were raised to match the increased requirements. The increase in wages led to a lot more people wanting to become a teacher. Now it is almost as competitive to become a teacher as it is to become a doctor in Ontario.
At first I thought this was a big waste, why do we have to go to the extra expense of educating and paying for someone just to teach our children.
I watched my two daughters get educated. They had both older teachers with just a high school education and younger teachers with a university education. The education that my daughters received from the younger teachers was in most cases much better than they received from the older teachers. I was convinced that it was well worth it to ask a higher standard of qualification for our teachers.
At first I thought this was a big waste, why do we have to go to the extra expense of educating and paying for someone just to teach our children.
I watched my two daughters get educated. They had both older teachers with just a high school education and younger teachers with a university education. The education that my daughters received from the younger teachers was in most cases much better than they received from the older teachers. I was convinced that it was well worth it to ask a higher standard of qualification for our teachers.
Good teachers work hard during the school year. They get summers off, plus the weeks off during holidays and semester breaks. A lot more days off than other other profession.
I tried teaching for a year when I first graduated from college. It was not the kids that made me decided against teaching. It was the what I heard form long-time teachers in the staff room that made realized that I do not want to associate with these people.
Most teachers seem apathetic, the discussion were more about their union or complaints about the kids. They would use up all their sick days but calling in sick even when that may not be the case.
Then I also see the best teachers leaving the profession. The kids were losing their Math teacher in one school and they said that was their best teacher. I met her and she was one of the few that seem knowledgeable and concerned about her students.
That was Boston in the early 1980's. Despite the lay-offs, I could had gotten into teaching as I had a degree in physics form a top university. I decided against it and got into software development.
It seems teachers unions are much more powerful and politically connected now than during my time. Talk to a parent in a not-so-great neighborhood and you get the story.
What problems?
The percent of the variance in educational outcomes explained by ALL in-school effects (including teachers, class size, spend-per-pupil, etc.) is between 5% and 15%. Probably closer to 5%. Teachers and schools have very little influence on the end result.
Corrected for non-school cofactors, US education is among the best in the world. It's easy enough to run the numbers yourself. Relevant data are availble on www.pisa.oecd.org and www.census.gov.