Teachers Unions & poor education in America

Quote from chartman:



In a free market society, employers will not pay more than is required to fill positions. In the large cities the teaching job composes of three duties that of being a prison guard, mental health nurse and trying to teach. Before one criticizes they should walk a mile in the other person's shoes.
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Total bullshit.

In a "free market" there wouldn"t be a teachers union that allows completely incompetant, uncaring, overpriced babysitters to be barred from getting fired.

Also, no fucking way does a normal teacher (working 9 months with all holidays and weekends off) deserve a top tier pay of almost 100k with full health benefits, and then GUARANTEES that after 20 years of service they are entitled to a lifetime of free health benefits and 80% of pre-retirement pay (with inflation adjustments!)

FUCK THAT GARBAGE.

I hope Christie kicks the shit out of the teachers union and gets the ball rolling for a nationwide reform of all unions. They started out with good intentions, however their greed and corruption have been holding the nation ransom for the last 40 years and are a major reason why this country is a fiscal disaster.
 
I'm no fan of unions, but to place all the blame on the teachers union is way off base.

I would say the the failure breakdown goes something like this:

40% Poor parenting.....we all know how society has changed in regards to discipline, morals, consequences, personal responsibility, etc

40% Government Interference.....with the exception of the military, everything the federal government touches turns to sh*t.

20% Teachers Union...... Not being able to fire your bottom performers is never a good thing for productivity.
 
Quote from Clubber Lang:

Total bullshit.

In a "free market" there wouldn"t be a teachers union that allows completely incompetant, uncaring, overpriced babysitters to be barred from getting fired.

Also, no fucking way does a normal teacher (working 9 months with all holidays and weekends off) deserve a top tier pay of almost 100k with full health benefits, and then GUARANTEES that after 20 years of service they are entitled to a lifetime of free health benefits and 80% of pre-retirement pay (with inflation adjustments!)

FUCK THAT GARBAGE.

I hope Christie kicks the shit out of the teachers union and gets the ball rolling for a nationwide reform of all unions. They started out with good intentions, however their greed and corruption have been holding the nation ransom for the last 40 years and are a major reason why this country is a fiscal disaster.
More...

A poster on another financial site posted an interesting anecdote the other day. He vacations a lot (I believe he's retired) and he said that the vast majority of people that he meets on vacations or cruises are retired teachers, police, military or government workers.

It must be nice to get 80% of your salary and free health care for life, after working 25 years in a ponzi style pension that is funded by tax payers.
 
Poor education is because American parents provide poor parenting.

If you do not have a strong foundation at home, no money in the world or changes no matter how often will improve our education. All we are doing is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic and no media pundit has the balls to tell the truth. Americans cannot handle the truth.
 
Quote from KINGOFSHORTS:

Poor education is because American parents provide poor parenting.

If you do not have a strong foundation at home, no money in the world or changes no matter how often will improve our education. All we are doing is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic and no media pundit has the balls to tell the truth. Americans cannot handle the truth.
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There are exceptions -- I've volunteered in schools for 10 years. Case in point - a girl I worked with for 3 years has a horrible home life. Constantly moving, Mom doesn't work, Mom doesn't come to parent-teacher conferences, etc. Yet with some hard work and mentoring this girl is a straight A student and aspires to be a doctor. She knows how poor they are; she knows her neighborhood is unsafe. I've worked with others who have achieved similar success. But most are not able to overcome the obstacles they face.

Also, Geoffrey Canada has done some great work in Harlem and they've shown you can have kids succeed in the face of adversity.

That said, most kids in poverty really struggle and by the time they're in 3rd or 4th grade they're a grade or more behind where they should be. You can't blame the kids for their situation. And if they fail (like their parents) we'll continue to see more and more growth in poverty and associated costs.

The teachers I work with go beyond 100%. But unions are a cancer IMO. No one -- in any career should be able to retire with 25 years of work. 35 years should be the minimum and given the financial disasters we face with underfunded pensions for state/federal/local employees we need to move retirement to 62, or even 65. We're living longer and longer and can't afford to pay people more years in retirement than they actually put in working.
 
Quote from KINGOFSHORTS:

Poor education is because American parents provide poor parenting.

If you do not have a strong foundation at home, no money in the world or changes no matter how often will improve our education. All we are doing is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic and no media pundit has the balls to tell the truth. Americans cannot handle the truth.
More...

No they can't. The minority community wants to blame it all on racism and lack of resourses. Rich elites don't want to discuss it. They know why urban schools are a mess, but they know it is too un-PC to mention it publicly. Of course, they all send their kids to expensive private schools, so they don't have any skin int he game.


I normally don't find much to agree with in Washington Post opinion pieces, but his one, by a black liberal, is right on target. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/04/AR2011020404934.html

He makes the point that single teen parenthood, poor educational achievement and crime are all statistically correlated. Of course, none of thi sis exactly news, and no one in authority has the will to do anything about it. Far easier to call for more resources for education, as if that makes a difference.
 
Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

No they can't. The minority community wants to blame it all on racism and lack of resourses. Rich elites don't want to discuss it. They know why urban schools are a mess, but they know it is too un-PC to mention it publicly. Of course, they all send their kids to expensive private schools, so they don't have any skin int he game.


I normally don't find much to agree with in Washington Post opinion pieces, but his one, by a black liberal, is right on target. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/04/AR2011020404934.html

He makes the point that single teen parenthood, poor educational achievement and crime are all statistically correlated. Of course, none of this is exactly news, and no one in authority has the will to do anything about it. Far easier to call for more resources for education, as if that makes a difference.
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Good article and a ton of truth there.

But I'll disagree with your generalization about minorities want to blame it on racism & lack of resources. Sure, some do, but not all. The school I volunteer at is 98% black and 99% below poverty level. I sit on a school committee that includes parents & grandparents as well as teachers and administrators. Those parents involved recognize that MORE parental involvement is necessary. At the same time you have some parents working 2 and 3 jobs and yes, others are on food stamps, subsidized housing, Medicaid, etc.

No easy answers but I get a lot more satisfaction out of going into this kind of school than if I were to volunteer in my own local school (where most kids have 2 parents at home, most eat 3 meals/day, most are relatively affluent, most have "stuff", ...).
 
Quote from Clubber Lang:

Total bullshit.

In a "free market" there wouldn"t be a teachers union that allows completely incompetant, uncaring, overpriced babysitters to be barred from getting fired.

Also, no fucking way does a normal teacher (working 9 months with all holidays and weekends off) deserve a top tier pay of almost 100k with full health benefits, and then GUARANTEES that after 20 years of service they are entitled to a lifetime of free health benefits and 80% of pre-retirement pay (with inflation adjustments!)

FUCK THAT GARBAGE.

I hope Christie kicks the shit out of the teachers union and gets the ball rolling for a nationwide reform of all unions. They started out with good intentions, however their greed and corruption have been holding the nation ransom for the last 40 years and are a major reason why this country is a fiscal disaster.
More...

Completely agree and let's go one further than that. With the many recent college grads who cannot find work, and in many cases would be qualified to be teachers, there is an even larger talent pool to choose from. Considering that this is a 9 month per year job (not even that with all the school vacation days), it should pay accordingly.
 
Quote from chartman:



"This would make school systems more politicial than they are now. Some systems requires an individual to 'know' someone in order to get hired."

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The opposite should be true. As the Negro College ad says, "A mind is a terrible thing to lose." The greatest asset a nation has is the brainpower of their youth. Education should be taxpayer supported to the extent of one's ability to learn.

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Everyone needs a word of encouragement and support. You never outgrow your need for praise and a 'job well done' compliment. I fully agree that students should be told that an effort must be made to be the best they can be and we will provide them that opportunity to the fullest extent of their abilities. It is one thing to tell a child something and another to make it a reality.

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Spanish will one day soon be as prevalent as English in the USA. It will not be a 'foreign' language.

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You have three types of disruptive students in a classroom. One is those that do not have 'parenting' at home mostly caused by single parent families or from disfunctional families. Another are students that are emotionally disturbed and on medication. And last are those students that cannot comprehend the material being taught and are thereby frustrated. I doubt if having gym all day would resolve these problems.



In a free market society, employers will not pay more than is required to fill positions. In the large cities the teaching job composes of three duties that of being a prison guard, mental health nurse and trying to teach. Before one criticizes they should walk a mile in the other person's shoes. [/B]
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"In a free market society, employers will not pay more than is required to fill positions. In the large cities the teaching job composes of three duties that of being a prison guard, mental health nurse and trying to teach. Before one criticizes they should walk a mile in the other person's shoes."


nonsense. government salaries are not the result of free market negotiations. government negotiators care little about costs. if free market was operative teachers in private schools would receive the same pay as teachers in public school. it is the power of government units to tax and borrow which results in excessive salaries

if the job is as unattractive as you imply there would not be so many candidates for each opening.

'I doubt if having gym all day would resolve these problems."

I never said anything about gym all day. your remark raises the issue about literacy level of teachers. of course u may not be a teacher but someone close to you probably is.

"This would make school systems more politicial than they are now. Some systems requires an individual to 'know' someone in order to get hired."

your statement has some truth to it. the job is attractive because salaries and benefits are excessive with little responsibility for output.
 
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