tax the rich for health care

[blackjack007]

Quote from clacy:

Typical moron who has never owned/managed a business and has no clue. Do yo think that in that $2k, there are some other costs associated besides just the "dentist's time"? Do dentists typically have a handful of people employed in the office? Do they pay rent? Do they have expenses for their employees (such as healthcare)? Do they have to play insurance premiums in case of litigation? Do they have expensive equipment in their office that needs to be paid off (x-rays, power tables, etc)?

You should really think through these things before posting.

2100 for 1 hour of work is indeed highway robbery.

rent for a small 1-person practice is 50000/year unless he practices in manhatten, so if you consider only the hours the office is open that works out to $22 for 1 hour. dental liability insurance is $25-50k annually. and so on...

do all the math and you'll find the total overhead for that 1 hour of work should be $300-400. the rest is profit for the dentist. congrats OP, you just gave $1700 to your dentist that he'll probably use to buy an aston martin.

 

[Angrycat]

Quote from Eliot Hosewater:

No one seems to be asking why it should cost more. Over on the Doctor thread someone pointed out that the French system is half of what our current costs are. I've heard people say it will cost an additional $1 trillion over the next 10 years to implement Obama's plan.

I guess the extra will be going to the pork.

Edit to add: I don't think people are entitled to "free" health care, but our current system is broken and getting worse. We should be able to replace it with something better at less cost. I pay over $1000 a month for insurance and maybe go to the doctor once or twice a year, so I am already paying for someone else's care.

One GIANT reason French healthcare is so much lower is that their obesity rate is much lower than the in the United States. Obesity related illnesses add almost $300Billion to the cost of U.S. healthcare. Another reason is that they smoke. Smokers tend to die pretty quickly once lung cancer is discovered and that means they pay into the system but never get much out of it. Also, France's population is less than a third of the U.S. population and the bureaucracy necessary to administer it is smaller.

Despite all that, the cost of healthcare is also rising at an alarming rate. The solution in France? Cut services. That's exactly the opposite of the promise here. In addition, almost everyone in France has private health insurance because the public health service isn't that great if you are in need of something more meaningful than an aspirin or antibiotics.

The system here is broken PRECISELY because it's already much closer to the British NHS system than it is to a free market system.

 

[Angrycat]

Quote from blackjack007:

i have paid cash for physician visits before, but they only reduce the price by 10~12% so it's not that significant

That's because in most states if the physician didn't charge you exactly what he BILLS the insurance company (although the insurance company always actually pays less than what the doctor bills), he could be hauled in for insurance fraud. Your government working for you. Nice, eh?

Also, because of a highly regulated insurance industry, state mandates and other state intervention, a robust market where prices are set by supply and demand does not exist.

 

[Angrycat]

Quote from runningman:

For all of those who oppose Government health care, please tell your parents/grandparents to get the hell off Medicare and start paying their own way.

I would, except that the law is that if you collect social security (which our parents and grandparents paid into, right?), you CAN'T opt out of Medicare.

In fact, there's a lawsuit right now from a group of seniors who want to opt out,, but aren't allowed to.

Your government working hard to fuck you. nice.

 

[Aletheia]

Quote from blackjack007:

2100 for 1 hour of work is indeed highway robbery.

rent for a small 1-person practice is 50000/year unless he practices in manhatten, so if you consider only the hours the office is open that works out to $22 for 1 hour. dental liability insurance is $25-50k annually. and so on...

do all the math and you'll find the total overhead for that 1 hour of work should be $300-400. the rest is profit for the dentist. congrats OP, you just gave $1700 to your dentist that he'll probably use to buy an aston martin.

You are talking out your ass. Considering student loans and office/equipment setup, it takes a minimum of $250-300k before you even turn the lights on. And that is bare basics. Add employees, insurance, and all the other day to day expenses, and most dentists in the US are lucky to break even the first few years.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Dentist/Salary

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_compresult_national_HC07000220.html

http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=Dentist&l1=alberta

 

[clacy]

Quote from blackjack007:

2100 for 1 hour of work is indeed highway robbery.

rent for a small 1-person practice is 50000/year unless he practices in manhatten, so if you consider only the hours the office is open that works out to $22 for 1 hour. dental liability insurance is $25-50k annually. and so on...

do all the math and you'll find the total overhead for that 1 hour of work should be $300-400. the rest is profit for the dentist. congrats OP, you just gave $1700 to your dentist that he'll probably use to buy an aston martin.

I'm 100% certain that this isn't his average. Clearly, there will be many hours where he is making far less that that. In fact, many dentists offer free check-ups, etc for new patients (loss-leader).

This dentist may very well be over charging, or he may not. We certainly don't know all the facts. If he is overcharging, the free market will take care of it.

I just laugh at all of the people who add up one procedure and extrapolate that a particular business (dds, md, or run of the mill business) is making huge profits, when they have no idea what the expenses may be for that particular business. The fact is that $2k isn't going directly into his pocket.

There are cancellations, people that don't pay their bills, etc............

In order to maitain a $350/hr average, you need to have some $2,000-hours in there because there will be times where you generate nothing (or close to nothing).

 

[ByLoSellHi]

I'm totally fine with going to an all-out consumption tax, as long as they eliminate the income tax.

 

[MaklodaSux]

I guess I'm the only one here making below $350,000. Whew, guess I dodged a bullet heh?

 

[ba1]

Air tickets to Asia $800 for high quality service. Living in parts of Asia, medical care is less than the part B deductible and you can dump the Mediscare ~$100 monthly (rising to $120 soon) since Medicare doesn't do anything for you overseas. Even more important if IRS starts charging better off retirees $300-400/month for Mediscare. F'em.

 

[Mvic]

Quote from Angrycat:

That's because in most states if the physician didn't charge you exactly what he BILLS the insurance company (although the insurance company always actually pays less than what the doctor bills), he could be hauled in for insurance fraud. Your government working for you. Nice, eh?

Also, because of a highly regulated insurance industry, state mandates and other state intervention, a robust market where prices are set by supply and demand does not exist.

Refreshing to see someone on here who actually knows what they are talking about. Indeed, it is medicare fraud if you underbill medicare for a procedure or visit just as it is if you overbill.