Tax on active traders in Germany

[virtusa]

But are you sure Spain does not tax trading income as business income if volume, frequency etc. surpasses a certain threshold (to be assessed subjectively by the tax authorities)?

In ANY European country you have that risk. Many EU countries do indeed judge based on volume, frequency, use of material, if you have other income, time spent on trading, etc.
The only 100% waterproof answer is the answer from the tax authorities. You will have to ask a fiscal ruling, and they should agree in writing. All the other answers are just guesses.
The other solution is not spent any money on professional advice and hope that later you will not get a taxation that is 100 times bigger than the consultancy fee you wanted to avoid paying.

So what you should do:

1. ask advice (PWC, E&Y, Deloitte...). That will cost you money ($1000 per consultation is cheap)
   
2. ask a fiscal ruling (what will probably be the answer from PWC, E&Y, Deloitte...) if the advice suggests to do that
3. pay somewhere around $5000 for the whole procedure
4. you will have an answer that will be for 100% correct and the engagement from the tax authorities

You can also just go to that country, start trading , and see what happens...
I am 100% sure that this option will be much more expensive. In Italy that would cost you 26% taxation.

 

[Maverick2608]

In ANY European country you have that risk. Many EU countries do indeed judge based on volume, frequency, use of material, if you have other income, etc.
The only 100% waterproof answer is the answer from the tax authorities. You will have to ask a fiscal ruling, and they should agree in writing. All the other answers are just guesses.
The other solution is not spent any money on professional advice and hope that later you will not get a taxation that is 100 times bigger than the consultancy fee you wanted to avoid paying.

So what you should do:

1. ask advice (PWC, E&Y, Deloitte...). That will cost you money ($1000 per consultation is cheap)
   
2. ask a fiscal ruling (what will probably be the answer from PWC, E&Y, Deloitte...) if the advice suggests to do that
3. pay somewhere around $5000 for the whole procedure
4. you will have an answer that will be for 100% correct and the engagement from the tax authorities

You can also just go to that country, start trading , and see what happens...
I am 100% sure that this option will be much more expensive.

Of course you should seek professional advice before you move to another country.

That does not mean you cannot test the water in an effort to find tax jurisdictions where they do not make the distinction. The cost of professional advice is not insignificant if you order a full analysis of 20 different countries.

I did hire professional advice some years back trying to gauge the relevance of a certain tax treatment in Portugal. The answer I got was unclear.

I do not agree that you have that risk in ANY European country. I got a hint (I believe it was on this board) that Sweden does not make the distinction. I contacted the Swedish tax authorities and they confirmed. At a later point I followed up by the Swedish tax authorities and they confirmed again.

No, of course I would not move to any country without legal advice and confirmation from tax authorities.

 

[greejan]

In ANY European country you have that risk. Many EU countries do indeed judge based on volume, frequency, use of material, if you have other income, etc.
The only 100% waterproof answer is the answer from the tax authorities. You will have to ask a fiscal ruling, and they should agree in writing. All the other answers are just guesses.
The other solution is not spent any money on professional advice and hope that later you will not get a taxation that is 100 times bigger than the consultancy fee you wanted to avoid paying.

So what you should do:

1. ask advice (PWC, E&Y, Deloitte...). That will cost you money ($1000 per consultation is cheap)
   
2. ask a fiscal ruling (what will probably be the answer from PWC, E&Y, Deloitte...) if the advice suggests to do that
3. pay somewhere around $5000 for the whole procedure
4. you will have an answer that will be for 100% correct and the engagement from the tax authorities

You can also just go to that country, start trading , and see what happens...
I am 100% sure that this option will be much more expensive.

I agree 100%. Even if you managed to set up some business structure, that'd still be 25% tax on profits plus lots of extra paperwork/expenses, and if the tax authority determines you did it with the only purpose of saving taxes, they'll go after you anyway.

 

[virtusa]

Of course you should seek professional advice before you move to another country.

That does not mean you cannot test the water in an effort to find tax jurisdictions where they do not make the distinction. The cost of professional advice is not insignificant if you order a full analysis of 20 different countries.

I did hire professional advice some years back trying to gauge the relevance of a certain tax treatment in Portugal. The answer I got was unclear.

I do not agree that you have that risk in ANY European country. I got a hint (I believe it was on this board) that Sweden does not make the distinction. I contacted the Swedish tax authorities and they confirmed. At a later point I followed up by the Swedish tax authorities and they confirmed again.

No, of course I would not move to any country without legal advice and confirmation from tax authorities.

So your problem is solved: move to Sweden.

I did hire professional advice some years back trying to gauge the relevance of a certain tax treatment in Portugal. The answer I got was unclear.

Strange, because if you want to avoid paying lots of taxes you don't wait years and still have taken no decision. You act fast because you pay too much taxes. So during these years you did not make much money.

 

[virtusa]

Start your search here:

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/

All countries and their taxation system are explained.

 

[Maverick2608]

So your problem is solved: move to Sweden.



Strange, because if you want to avoid paying lots of taxes you don't wait years and still have taken no decision. You act fast because you pay too much taxes. So during these years you did not make much money.

That is an ignorant statement. You cannot imagine any other factor than money influencing the decision? Some things other than money have value: time spend with your children, family, friends, certainty on the ability to consistently deliver profits, lots of things.

 

[virtusa]

That is an ignorant statement. You cannot imagine any other factor than money influencing the decision? Some things other than money have value: time spend with your children, family, friends, certainty on the ability to consistently deliver profits, lots of things.

I know, I moved to Italy. I know perfectly what it is all about. Did you do research on all these things?

 

[Maverick2608]

I know, I moved to Italy. I know perfectly what it is all about. Did you do research on all these things?

The headline for this discussion subgroup is "Taxes and Accounting." Your argument: "Hire professional advice" can be applied to every question within this subgroup. In that case there is no need for this subgroup.

I believe it makes sense to test the water. I will and recommend everyone to hire professional advice when it comes to questions about tax law.

 

[virtusa]

The headline for this discussion subgroup is "Taxes and Accounting." Your argument: "Hire professional advice" can be applied to every question within this subgroup. In that case there is no need for this subgroup.

I believe it makes sense to test the water. I will and recommend everyone to hire professional advice when it comes to questions about tax law.

I did hire professional advice some years back trying to gauge the relevance of a certain tax treatment in Portugal. The answer I got was unclear.

You are already busy a few years apparently, you cannot find the answers you need and even professionals who answer your questions cannot help you as you don't understand the answers.

To me there are 2 possible reasons that might have brought you in this situation:

1. You have no money and make no money. You are just dreaming and will never move.
2. You have money but you are afraid to take action. Your subconscious is blocking you. Kind of self destructive behavior.

I hope for you that it is the second option as it is easier to overcome.

You should follow your own advice that you posted, as it is about taxes: I will and recommend everyone to hire professional advice when it comes to questions about tax law.
The first word in the title of this thread is TAX.

 

[Maverick2608]

You are already busy a few years apparently, you cannot find the answers you need and even professionals who answer your questions cannot help you as you don't understand the answers.

To me there are 2 possible reasons that might have brought you in this situation:

1. You have no money and make no money. You are just dreaming and will never move.
2. You have money but you are afraid to take action. Your subconscious is blocking you. Kind of self destructive behavior.

I hope for you that it is the second option as it is easier to overcome.

You should follow your own advice that you posted, as it is about taxes: I will and recommend everyone to hire professional advice when it comes to questions about tax law.
The first word in the title of this thread is TAX.

I think you are describing yourself. Why else would you waste so much time on futile comments trying to stir up a fight. Move on. I don't want to waste more time on you.