Tax insanity... Americans spend more on Taxes than food and clothing

[newwurldmn]

your comment makes no sense...

you wrote this...

Average incomes rose from 63,000 to 74,000.
On this incremental increase in incomes, 40% tax was paid. (the extra 4,000 that the article cites)

either you got that wrong or you are the one who does not understand averages or your recent comment makes no sense.

Average income means total income / total number of tax paying entities.

If a few rich people have massive income increases that will increase the numerator without increasing the denominator. Those rich people pay marginal rates of 40percent.

This has nothing to do with a family earning 63000 in 2013 and 74000 in 2016.

Further to compare the effective tax rates: in 2013 Americans paid approx 15percent in ALL taxes and in 2016 17percent in ALL taxes. Does that seem unreasonable?

i don't blame you for not applying any critical thinking here. Your fake news article quoted the BLS site so that they could claim they used non-partisan data but they twisted it so much they deliberately didn't link to the report that they used.

 

[Scataphagos]

America does not need your tax dollar to function. It could just print the money.

No, they couldn't really do that. Would seem OK in the early years, but the value of the USD would become like Weimar Marks. What America really needs is fiscal responsibility in government... BALANCED BUDGET!

 

[jem]

1. we could just cap the budget so it does not expand and we would inflate into balance within a few years..

but..

this is very important to understand...

a. dollars are used all over the world.
the world wide economy grows.
monetary theory states you could or should expand the money supply to match growth in the Dollar denominated economy... too little expansion and you migh choke it off and make the dollar very strong. ( so the fed has been getting the private benefit of creating trillions of dollars...not the tax payers.)

So, our govt could spend a boatload more than in takes in without inflation as the world dollar economy expands...

b. we don't even know how many dollars the Federal Reserve system creates each year.
It could be equivalent to our tax revenue.

c. so until we have an idea of how much the FED makes we really don't know how inflationary eliminating the income tax will be.

d. Why should income earners be the only ones being punished and made the bogeyman.

Why should not everyone in American share equally in the costs of the govt of America. Because everyone would or should be afraid of inflation... we would all have skin in the game of making our politicians budget and spend properly. Those living off the govt might have an interest in supporting a more efficient govt or they might push hard to take troops out of europe.

Instead of spend spend spend and then a little tax... we could have a real budget discussions and our votes would have to match our conscience.

No, they couldn't really do that. Would seem OK in the early years, but the value of the USD would become like Weimar Marks. What America really needs is fiscal responsibility in government... BALANCED BUDGET!

 

[Scataphagos]

d. Why should income earners be the only ones being punished and made the bogeyman.

Because it's an "easy sell" on the path to power.

 

[jem]

you just stated a bunch of obvious shit... we all learned about mean median and average in stats class.

the point of the article was this...

"In 2016, according to BLS, “consumer units” (which include families, financially independent individuals, and people living in a single household who share expenses) spent more on average on federal, state and local taxes ($10,489) than they did on food ($7,203) and clothing ($1,803) combined ($9,006)."


you then brought up the 40 percent increase and started making vague arguments which may or may not be valid.

now you wish to lecture about the problem with mean median and mode instead of making a concrete point. Then you try to tell me I don't understand averages....when you are arguing about an article without even establishing a single fact.

Make your argument get some facts explain to us how misleading the article was to state that the average american family unit spends more on taxes than food and clothing.

don't tell me I don't understand averages, I deal with median vs average in my business all the time.... I even vlog about it.

Average income means total income / total number of tax paying entities.

If a few rich people have massive income increases that will increase the numerator without increasing the denominator. Those rich people pay marginal rates of 40percent.

This has nothing to do with a family earning 63000 in 2013 and 74000 in 2016.

Further to compare the effective tax rates: in 2013 Americans paid approx 15percent in ALL taxes and in 2016 17percent in ALL taxes. Does that seem unreasonable?

i don't blame you for not applying any critical thinking here. Your fake news article quoted the BLS site so that they could claim they used non-partisan data but they twisted it so much they deliberately didn't link to the report that they used.

 

[newwurldmn]

you just stated a bunch of obvious shit... we all learned about mean median and average in stats class.

the point of the article was this...

"In 2016, according to BLS, “consumer units” (which include families, financially independent individuals, and people living in a single household who share expenses) spent more on average on federal, state and local taxes ($10,489) than they did on food ($7,203) and clothing ($1,803) combined ($9,006)."


you then brought up the 40 percent increase and started making vague arguments which may or may not be valid.

now you wish to lecture about the problem with mean median and mode instead of making a concrete point. Then you try to tell me I don't understand averages....when you are arguing about an article without even establishing a single fact.

Make your argument get some facts explain to us how misleading the article was to state that the average american family unit spends more on taxes than food and clothing.

don't tell me I don't understand averages, I deal with median vs average in my business all the time.... I even vlog about it.

The point is clear: the 40percent increase in taxes is explained by growth in aggregate wages. it has nothing to do with what why a family making 74,000 pays.

And why is it a problem if taxes are the largest expense? We consume a lot of local, state and federal services everyday.

You vlog about math and this is the extent of your analytical reasoning? That you took this article you posted on face and then tried to defend it by talking about a hypothetical family?

 

[jem]

1. I did not intend to convey the idea my blog was about math. My blog sometimes illustrates mean vs median.

2. It seems to me all you have really told us is that mean is not the mode and the numbers could therefore be different. which is a given no one would dispute.

40 percent of income going to taxes... and then more going to sales taxes and 200 other taxes is not much different than indentured servitude. I am not OK with that and never will be for my sake and future generations.

The point is clear: the 40percent increase in taxes is explained by growth in aggregate wages. it has nothing to do with what why a family making 74,000 pays.

And why is it a problem if taxes are the largest expense? We consume a lot of local, state and federal services everyday.

You vlog about math and this is the extent of your analytical reasoning? That you took this article you posted on face and then tried to defend it by talking about a hypothetical family?

 

[newwurldmn]

1. I did not intend to convey the idea my blog was about math. My blog sometimes illustrates mean vs median.

2. It seems to me all you have really told us is that mean is not the mode and the numbers could therefore be different. which is a given no one would dispute.

40 percent of income going to taxes... and then more going to sales taxes and 200 other taxes is not much different than indentured servitude. I am not OK with that and never will be for my sake and future generations.

So the article you posted came to the wrong conclusions. American's didn't pay 40% more in taxes. 40% more taxes were paid but average income rising explained a lot of it, and likely that average income rising came from the wealthy buckets that pay higher marginal rates. If incomes rose uniformly the ratio cited would probably be smaller.

Again, that 40% of marginal income only applies to people in the highest tax brackets and even then it's hard for them to pay it. I'm well above the highest tax bracket and my total tax rate is well below 40%. I think the data quoted in your OP along with other data is consistent to the fact that the wealthy have gotten wealthier and they are paying more taxes as a result.

The entire universe of taxpayers only pays a total of 17%. For that they get access to a network of roads, schools, fire dept, garbage collection, national parks, and the greatest army any civilization has ever had. It seems like a pretty good deal.

 

[jem]

any time you wish to provide data to support your assumptions I am happy to read and consider it.

the point of the article has not been seriously challenged by you.

do average american tax payers pay more in income taxes than food or clothing or not?
if the article was fake news as you said... you have not yet made that showing.

So the article you posted came to the wrong conclusions. American's didn't pay 40% more in taxes. 40% more taxes were paid but average income rising explained a lot of it, and likely that average income rising came from the wealthy buckets that pay higher marginal rates. If incomes rose uniformly the ratio cited would probably be smaller.

Again, that 40% of marginal income only applies to people in the highest tax brackets and even then it's hard for them to pay it. I'm well above the highest tax bracket and my total tax rate is well below 40%. I think the data quoted in your OP along with other data is consistent to the fact that the wealthy have gotten wealthier and they are paying more taxes as a result.

The entire universe of taxpayers only pays a total of 17%. For that they get access to a network of roads, schools, fire dept, garbage collection, national parks, and the greatest army any civilization has ever had. It seems like a pretty good deal.

 

[Nine_Ender]

40 percent of income going to taxes... and then more going to sales taxes and 200 other taxes is not much different than indentured servitude. I am not OK with that and never will be for my sake and future generations.

You'd rather believe a whole load of bs about economies and the national debt and pass on a huge debt load to future generations.