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TAPE READING (chat room cont.)
- Thread starter shortseller
- Start date
i concur, great post mav. Hey maverick, could you maybe go over some more things to look out for when tape reading? For example, what is a head fake, how to spot a head fake. How to determine if there's really a strong buyer/seller, what is a refresh order, how to spot them, or anything that you think might be helpful, like what sort of trend do you like to see happening in the openbook and TAS window. I really enjoyed your previous post on double prints. I think it really helped me the way you described it from top to bottom. So if you can think of any strategies or things a beginner should learn to identify, please feel free to share your thoughts.. i'm sure others here would love to learn more from your experience.
To other readers, if you have a trick or something that you picked up, feel free to share them here.. i think if each person share something they've learned, it would really help this community as a whole. =)
appreciate it guys. keep them coming.
ps, anyone care to recommend any good stocks for beginners to learn on? preferably something within the 200,000 to 1 million daily volume range, and one that's not traded heavily by daytraders... so i can learn to spot real institutional buyers/sellers.
To other readers, if you have a trick or something that you picked up, feel free to share them here.. i think if each person share something they've learned, it would really help this community as a whole. =)
appreciate it guys. keep them coming.
ps, anyone care to recommend any good stocks for beginners to learn on? preferably something within the 200,000 to 1 million daily volume range, and one that's not traded heavily by daytraders... so i can learn to spot real institutional buyers/sellers.
Quote from chiefraven:
i concur, great post mav. Hey maverick, could you maybe go over some more things to look out for when tape reading? For example, what is a head fake, how to spot a head fake.
It's pretty simple. If you can spot the aggressive buyer or the seller, the headfakes won't matter. The only people that get hoodwinked by the head fakes are those that are either not paying attention to the tape or they have not spotted the buyer or seller yet. If I know there is a buyer at .52 and he is aggressive, what do I care if I see a 10k share offer step down from .56 to .55. Quite frankly, if I see that offer, I'm going to be the one that lifts it!
How to determine if there's really a strong buyer/seller
Again, you can tell by how much stock he is buying. You are watching the prints right? If you see 500, 1000 going off, maybe he does not that much to buy. But if you see 20k, 50k 100k printing, this guy clearly has some stock to buy!
what is a refresh order, how to spot them, or anything that you think might be helpful
A refresh is simply when you see 500 on the bid, then 500 hits the bid and he shows the 500 bid again. Then someone hits him for 1000, and yet another 500 share bid shows up. Once again, he clearly has more stock to buy then 500 shares.
like what sort of trend do you like to see happening in the openbook and TAS window.
I don't watch the open book or the TAS window during the day, just the quotes. The only trend I like to see are higher highs and higher lows or lower lows and lower highs.
I really enjoyed your previous post on double prints. I think it really helped me the way you described it from top to bottom. So if you can think of any strategies or things a beginner should learn to identify, please feel free to share your thoughts.. i'm sure others here would love to learn more from your experience.
To other readers, if you have a trick or something that you picked up, feel free to share them here.. i think if each person share something they've learned, it would really help this community as a whole. =)
appreciate it guys. keep them coming.
ps, anyone care to recommend any good stocks for beginners to learn on? preferably something within the 200,000 to 1 million daily volume range, and one that's not traded heavily by daytraders... so i can learn to spot real institutional buyers/sellers.
Mav,
The hardest part is to find out how aggressive or strong the buyer is.
Sometimes i see something like that:
20.50 20.55 1 x 10
and prints like that:
20.50 200
20.50 200
20.50 300
20.50 500
20.50 20.55 1 x 10
You think there is a strong buyer at 20.50 b/c of the refresh bid, and so you buy the stock at 20.55.
Suddenly the bid is gone, and you got:
20.45 20.49 1 x 10
Do you get out? I usually do because the buyer is gone. (At least for now, or the seller is stronger than the buyer.)
The prints might go down for 10 cents or more, and then suddenly the buyer is coming back and push the stocks a lot higher.
I guess the buyer is not aggressive enough, or he wants to shake out weaker hands. Who knows?
Very frustrated!
The hardest part is to find out how aggressive or strong the buyer is.
Sometimes i see something like that:
20.50 20.55 1 x 10
and prints like that:
20.50 200
20.50 200
20.50 300
20.50 500
20.50 20.55 1 x 10
You think there is a strong buyer at 20.50 b/c of the refresh bid, and so you buy the stock at 20.55.
Suddenly the bid is gone, and you got:
20.45 20.49 1 x 10
Do you get out? I usually do because the buyer is gone. (At least for now, or the seller is stronger than the buyer.)
The prints might go down for 10 cents or more, and then suddenly the buyer is coming back and push the stocks a lot higher.
I guess the buyer is not aggressive enough, or he wants to shake out weaker hands. Who knows?
Very frustrated!
Maverick, thank you for all the valuable input I havent found a thread on here that has been as helpful as this one so far.
I have a question about a stock I was trading today, the offer is only showing 10,000 shares on it at .16 lets say and im seeing prints going off into this offer at like 500, 000. 200,000. these prints are going into the specialist but they are not showing as the bid comes across, I am able to get stock at this price when the N prints, now the stock is able to go up from there and down from there and I am seeing these massive blocks going through into bids and offers all day with nothing showing.( on the bid or the offer, but its eating blocks of 500,000 as i said) Nothing else is really going thoruhg for the volume all day except these huge blocks that would seemingly take five levels but never do, the moves seem almost 100% random can you tell me what is happening in this stock? (for the stock im watching his is not normal, but has been happening for the last couple days)
again thx for all the valuable information.
-Dan
I have a question about a stock I was trading today, the offer is only showing 10,000 shares on it at .16 lets say and im seeing prints going off into this offer at like 500, 000. 200,000. these prints are going into the specialist but they are not showing as the bid comes across, I am able to get stock at this price when the N prints, now the stock is able to go up from there and down from there and I am seeing these massive blocks going through into bids and offers all day with nothing showing.( on the bid or the offer, but its eating blocks of 500,000 as i said) Nothing else is really going thoruhg for the volume all day except these huge blocks that would seemingly take five levels but never do, the moves seem almost 100% random can you tell me what is happening in this stock? (for the stock im watching his is not normal, but has been happening for the last couple days)
again thx for all the valuable information.
-Dan
Yip:
You have to have a couple more skills. First, you have to know that buyer may have more to go, but they do not want you to see their hand. If they disappear for a while, and the stock gets marked down, it is to their advantage. You need to look on the other side. Do they disappear completely, or do they appear on the offer, selling it down. If they leave the bid, how long before they return? Is there a rhythm to the movement. Check it out, use your head. If it is a news stock, who else is strong in the stock? You have to learn how your stock acts from day to day as well. Look at the open as one segment of the day. How do they trade it at the open and into the first hour. Look at what happens at lunch. Does the buyer disappear at lunch (NY)? Often that happens and you have a trainee working that stock with instructions to "go with the flow". A lot of this is gained by being a patient observer and putting two and two together. Finally, you can look at the timing and sometimes catch the automated buys and sells. The best time to do this is after the sesssion is over. Look at the T&S and check out the time between prints. You may see prints go off like this .05 .20. 40 .55 and repeat. That is likely an automated execution. You have to study this on your own time, and put what you learn into use a little at a time.
Good luck,
Steve
Edit:
One final idea. If you see a buyer refresh at those intervals, my own preference would be to match them. Often you will see them trigger that kind of buying (200 @.05, 200@.20, etc) and you may think "I will front them and buy size". Don't, many programs are setup to see your size comming in and then let you sit there with the ball in your lap. Dont get greedy. Take a bite, and pull back, Rinse and repeat. Just one man's opinion.
You have to have a couple more skills. First, you have to know that buyer may have more to go, but they do not want you to see their hand. If they disappear for a while, and the stock gets marked down, it is to their advantage. You need to look on the other side. Do they disappear completely, or do they appear on the offer, selling it down. If they leave the bid, how long before they return? Is there a rhythm to the movement. Check it out, use your head. If it is a news stock, who else is strong in the stock? You have to learn how your stock acts from day to day as well. Look at the open as one segment of the day. How do they trade it at the open and into the first hour. Look at what happens at lunch. Does the buyer disappear at lunch (NY)? Often that happens and you have a trainee working that stock with instructions to "go with the flow". A lot of this is gained by being a patient observer and putting two and two together. Finally, you can look at the timing and sometimes catch the automated buys and sells. The best time to do this is after the sesssion is over. Look at the T&S and check out the time between prints. You may see prints go off like this .05 .20. 40 .55 and repeat. That is likely an automated execution. You have to study this on your own time, and put what you learn into use a little at a time.
Good luck,
Steve
Edit:
One final idea. If you see a buyer refresh at those intervals, my own preference would be to match them. Often you will see them trigger that kind of buying (200 @.05, 200@.20, etc) and you may think "I will front them and buy size". Don't, many programs are setup to see your size comming in and then let you sit there with the ball in your lap. Dont get greedy. Take a bite, and pull back, Rinse and repeat. Just one man's opinion.
Quote from yip1997:
Mav,
The hardest part is to find out how aggressive or strong the buyer is.
Sometimes i see something like that:
20.50 20.55 1 x 10
and prints like that:
20.50 200
20.50 200
20.50 300
20.50 500
20.50 20.55 1 x 10
You think there is a strong buyer at 20.50 b/c of the refresh bid, and so you buy the stock at 20.55.
Suddenly the bid is gone, and you got:
20.45 20.49 1 x 10
Do you get out? I usually do because the buyer is gone. (At least for now, or the seller is stronger than the buyer.)
The prints might go down for 10 cents or more, and then suddenly the buyer is coming back and push the stocks a lot higher.
I guess the buyer is not aggressive enough, or he wants to shake out weaker hands. Who knows?
Very frustrated!
Yip,
Like I said said before, I appreciate everyone on here asking questions using examples, but the examples are hard to address if you have not been watching the stock from open to close. You can't just take a snapshot and say, what is happening here?
Usually when there is a buyer or seller in a stock, they are there all day from open to close. You will see the same patterns.
I also would need to know where is the stock? Is it near the high of the day? Has it been making new highs all day? Was there news on the stock? What are the futures doing? Does the buyer come back when the futures start to uptick? There are just so many variables at play here.
BTW, I would never buy a stock just because the bid is being refreshed.
Quote from dwl603:
Maverick, thank you for all the valuable input I haven't found a thread on here that has been as helpful as this one so far.
I have a question about a stock I was trading today, the offer is only showing 10,000 shares on it at .16 lets say and im seeing prints going off into this offer at like 500, 000. 200,000. these prints are going into the specialist but they are not showing as the bid comes across, I am able to get stock at this price when the N prints, now the stock is able to go up from there and down from there and I am seeing these massive blocks going through into bids and offers all day with nothing showing.( on the bid or the offer, but its eating blocks of 500,000 as i said) Nothing else is really going through for the volume all day except these huge blocks that would seemingly take five levels but never do, the moves seem almost 100% random can you tell me what is happening in this stock? (for the stock im watching his is not normal, but has been happening for the last couple days)
again thx for all the valuable information.
-Dan
Again, there is not enough info here. I need to know what is the avg volume in this stock? If this stock is thick, it's going to be very hard to read the tape as size prints don't really mean anything. Is the stock near the high, near the lows, how did it open? What are the futures doing? Was there news on the stock?
Let me re-iterate the importance here of using stocks in the news or related stocks. Also, we need to keep our focus on stocks that trade less then 1.5 million shares a day. Also, the futures play a very important role here. Every specialist and broker on the floor is watching every tick on the futures. They will pull their bids if the futures start selling off.