TAPE READING (chat room cont.)

[eusdaiki]

A couple of questions...

1- Is there a book that's good for learning how to read the tape?

2- Is there a web site where I can find old tapes so that I can study them and try to identify patterns? [ I'm guessing that spotting a pattern on an old tape must be easier as one already knows the outcome], so that I learn to recognize buyers and sellers before trying to do it live.

 

[fulliautomatix]

you can find programs that will record the Time and Sales for you- then you can study them if you want later. Or just use esignal or something and look at the tape at the end of the day- they usually save one or two days back.

 

[yip1997]

I think I saw a double print at the time & scale today with DHI, but I don't know if they are two aggressive buyers or sellers.

I sold the stock when I saw the double prints because there were some small prints with price lower than the double prints, and the offer stepped down lower than the price. The stock was actually very strong, and I ended up missing more than a point.

How can you tell the difference?

 

[ilganzo]

Quote from fatrat:

Wow, this was very insightful. I never realized this until today when I read this. Thank you VERY, VERY much.

I'm going to go back through the stock I normally trade and see if I can find this phenomenon.

Yes, you'll find this phenomenon many times when you look at the chart at the end of the day.

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from yip1997:

I think I saw a double print at the time & scale today with DHI, but I don't know if they are two aggressive buyers or sellers.

I sold the stock when I saw the double prints because there were some small prints with price lower than the double prints, and the offer stepped down lower than the price. The stock was actually very strong, and I ended up missing more than a point.

How can you tell the difference?

You need to identify the buyer or seller BEFORE you see the double prints.

 

[ilganzo]

Quote from yip1997:

I think I saw a double print at the time & scale today with DHI, but I don't know if they are two aggressive buyers or sellers.

I sold the stock when I saw the double prints because there were some small prints with price lower than the double prints, and the offer stepped down lower than the price. The stock was actually very strong, and I ended up missing more than a point.

How can you tell the difference?

I am not sure I totally understand the scenario you're trying to describe but I guess you're refering to equal sized prints larger than 10,000 shares, indicating the specialist is (probably) printing two floor buyers (or two floor sellers) and thus deriving that momentum will continue in the same direction of the double print (up if the double print is on the ask, down if it's on the bid).

I read about this in other posts in this thread but the problem is, how do you know how much size is left in the hands of the specialist after those prints? Is that the beginning of a new trend or is it just the last step of two floor orders? Who knows. Those prints can serve as a confirmation of a setup (again, setup) or the continuation of a trend (I would not drop my position if the double print is in my favour) but definitely not as a sure fire signal by themself.

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from ilganzo:

I am not sure I totally understand the scenario you're trying to describe but I guess you're refering to equal sized prints larger than 10,000 shares, indicating the specialist is (probably) printing two floor buyers (or two floor sellers) and thus deriving that momentum will continue in the same direction of the double print (up if the double print is on the ask, down if it's on the bid).

I read about this in other posts in this thread but the problem is, how do you know how much size is left in the hands of the specialist after those prints? Is that the beginning of a new trend or is it just the last step of two floor orders? Who knows. Those prints can serve as a confirmation of a setup (again, setup) or the continuation of a trend (I would not drop my position if the double print is in my favour) but definitely not as a sure fire signal by themself.

Double prints can be of any size, not just over 10,000 shares. And they rarely if ever go off at the bid or offer.

 

[yip1997]

Quote from Maverick74:

You need to identify the buyer or seller BEFORE you see the double prints.

Maverick,

That is exactly my question. How do you identify the buyer or seller?

The attachment is the chart and time&scale.

I am a new trader who just want to learn. I have learned a lot from your messages about tape reading in this thread.

One more question about tape reading.

Do you just use time & scale for tape reading, or do you use t&s with open book?

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from yip1997:

Maverick,

That is exactly my question. How do you identify the buyer or seller?

The attachment is the chart and time&scale.

I am a new trader who just want to learn. I have learned a lot from your messages about tape reading in this thread.

One more question about tape reading.

Do you just use time & scale for tape reading, or do you use t&s with open book?

I never look at time and sales during the day, only the quote. Open book is garbage, don't look at it

 

[yip1997]

Quote from ilganzo:

I am not sure I totally understand the scenario you're trying to describe but I guess you're refering to equal sized prints larger than 10,000 shares, indicating the specialist is (probably) printing two floor buyers (or two floor sellers) and thus deriving that momentum will continue in the same direction of the double print (up if the double print is on the ask, down if it's on the bid).

Ilganzo:

If you look at my attachment, you will find it hard to tell if they are buyers or sellers (at least to me, I am trying to learn to identify buyers or sellers). The first double print at 34.42 (with 4000 shares each) occurred between bid and ask. Then offer stepped down to 34.42, but Bid stepped up too. The second double print (with 1900 shares) at the ask, and offer stepped down to 34.41 with small prints at 34.41. Then the third double print (with 1000 shares) occurred at 34.42 again. The offer was then lowered back to 34.41. A sale with 400 shares was then hit at the ask (34.40).

DHI just announced earnings yesterday, so I assumed there was institutional buyer or seller.