Just FYI, I've seen specialist or floor broker reserve orders showing 10k... and sometimes when they start showing less than 10k that's the end of the order.
Usually they game it though, and continue to refresh after decrementing the display size.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
TAPE READING (chat room cont.)
- Thread starter shortseller
- Start date
Just FYI, I've seen specialist or floor broker reserve orders showing 10k... and sometimes when they start showing less than 10k that's the end of the order.
Usually they game it though, and continue to refresh after decrementing the display size.
Quote from NY0BScalper:
Just FYI, I've seen specialist or floor broker reserve orders showing 10k... and sometimes when they start showing less than 10k that's the end of the order.
Usually they game it though, and continue to refresh after decrementing the display size.
What was the stock? I bet it was a large-cap one, in small/mid cap they use to just satisfy minimum 1k to display, and when NYSE reduced min size to 1 lot, the spec/floor brokers were more than happy...
Someone PMed me and asked me to post the link to the complete interview with Adam Wasserman (my mentor) on tape reading.
Here is a link to the PDF file. Enjoy.
http://www.traders.com/Reprints/PDF_reprints/WC_TAPE.PDF
Here is a link to the PDF file. Enjoy.
http://www.traders.com/Reprints/PDF_reprints/WC_TAPE.PDF
Quote from Maverick74:
It's very different Fred. Sure, anyone can say they are reading the tape but you can't truly read the buyer and the seller in futures and nasdaq stocks.
For example, at the top of my game, I could tell how many buyers and sellers there were in a stock, how much stock they have, how much more they have left, where they are buying and selling and exactly when they are done. This simply cannot be done in futures and nasdaq stocks.
At best all you can do is determine relative strength and weakness and perhaps some sort of level where you think there is support and weakness. There is so much information on the tape of listed stocks. It's more then just prints. Where is he bidding, what size, is he the bid getting hit, is it getting hit on an uptick, does the size change, is he showing the same bid, how much stock printed, is it an even or odd number of shares. All this is so important. You simply cannot do this on nasdaq stocks and certainly can't do it with futures.
Hi Mav,
I am interested in your comment above: "At best all you can do is determine relative strength and weakness and perhaps some sort of level where you think there is support and weakness."
Can you kindly comment on what approach should one take to accomplish that from the standpoint of tape reading the futures such as ES? Thank you for your help.
Regards,
cook
Quote from cookding:
Hi Mav,
I am interested in your comment above: "At best all you can do is determine relative strength and weakness and perhaps some sort of level where you think there is support and weakness."
Can you kindly comment on what approach should one take to accomplish that from the standpoint of tape reading the futures such as ES? Thank you for your help.
Regards,
cook
Cook, like I said in my post, you can't really tape read the futures. I think your best approach with futures is to locate key levels and observe how the market reacts to those levels. My favorite is watching how the market reacts to news. It always amazes me how many people try to short the maket on bad news/good action. To me, that is the easiest long in the world and vice versa, good news/bad action.
You see oil up 5 bucks and a bad CPI number and the spoos are down 2 handles on the open. There is a lot of information on that open and it's not telling you to get short. You can also look at the key levels. Take 1400 in the spoos. When we traded there to the upside on our way to 1440 I was shocked how many guys were trying to sell 1400. We got to 1400 and gently came off that level a few times while getting the worst news every single day. We should have been coming off hard on that level but we kept holding and holding and holding. If that wasn't a long signal, I don't know what is. Yet so many people were calling double tops, fib retracements, round number, etc.
You can tell a lot about price action you just have to look at the bigger picture and not get caught up in absolute levels. That's one of the key differences in listed stocks. Stocks actually had price levels you could trade off of. Actual prints. Futures are way too noisy. The spoos could be selling off on real weakness or they could be getting sold because there is a large buyer in the Russell who is spreading sales off in the spoos. Or there could be a large hedge fund that just bought 10k puts to hedge a position and he cleared out the book on the spoos and pushed the market lower temporarily. Like I said, much more sloppy. So you need to step back and widen your levels and not get too wrapped up in absolute prices.
That's the best advice I can offer. And don't forget to trade the reactions! It's not the news that matters but how the market reacts to it.
Just skimmed through this thread, am just curious because wouldn't context override all when it comes to tape reading? Meaning that, price action "x" in say crude oil after a bullish inventory report would portend the exact opposite of price action "x" after a bearish inventory report? So if one doesn't have the relevant information ie proper context then price action is basically useless or misleading?
Futhermore, if a simple thing such as a large bid size normally inferred future weakness, then can't you project such a principle of deception further out over time/price to say that large declines are usually preceded by short-term show false strength and vice versa?
Futhermore, if a simple thing such as a large bid size normally inferred future weakness, then can't you project such a principle of deception further out over time/price to say that large declines are usually preceded by short-term show false strength and vice versa?
got pointed to this thread. i don't often trade nyse stocks, and virtually never trade the big boys on the nasdaq. so my methods aren't completely universal...
however, i've found many of the things that maverick and steve said in the first couple pages of this thread to ring true, even on the naz stocks i trade. (i flock to where there's unusual activity).
another thing - if stock takes out an established low level, SHOULD break down hard, a size bid comes in and the stock doesn't even attempt to chip away at it - watch out for the reversal!
anyhow, thanks to those posters from early on. i'm going to read the rest of this thread, but it's got some great tips on the first few pages that i would never have understood until i experienced them, over and over again, when trading..
however, i've found many of the things that maverick and steve said in the first couple pages of this thread to ring true, even on the naz stocks i trade. (i flock to where there's unusual activity).
another thing - if stock takes out an established low level, SHOULD break down hard, a size bid comes in and the stock doesn't even attempt to chip away at it - watch out for the reversal!
anyhow, thanks to those posters from early on. i'm going to read the rest of this thread, but it's got some great tips on the first few pages that i would never have understood until i experienced them, over and over again, when trading..
seems pretty obvious and saw someone else say the same thing. go long at 100.01 and get out when it goes below 100. that is the answer.