Talking about a "Sucker's Rally"

Quote from S2007S:

There is no bull coming to wallstreet, you have to be a fool to fall for these rallies, the bull market is over and will be for a very long time, this bear market will be here for years.
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I don't get all the back and forth about sucker's rallies and being a fool to fall for them. We are traders, correct? If a stock or a market rallies take the long ride, if it falls take the short ride.

And if you like a stock at a given price as a long term investment, buy it and hold it. Bear markets do recover and long term investments are just that: long term.
 
Obviously, S2007 and the like aren't traders. They have preconceived notions of what's supposed to happen and act accordingly. They support their claims with scary headlines, not technicals or even meaningful fundamentals (like valuations).

Quote from NoDoji:

I don't get all the back and forth about sucker's rallies and being a fool to fall for them. We are traders, correct? If a stock or a market rallies take the long ride, if it falls take the short ride.

And if you like a stock at a given price as a long term investment, buy it and hold it. Bear markets do recover and long term investments are just that: long term.
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November 27, 2008

SouthAmerica: I still think that this is just a "Sucker's Rally" and that the Dow Jones will test the 7,000 level in the coming months.

We have an artificial market rally going on based on US government intervention and nothing else.

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Look at treasury yields and tell me this hasn't been a sucker's rally.

Who is Obama going to announce to his economic team next? Warren Buffett? :p
 
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December 7, 2008

SouthAmerica: Last Friday we had a deluge of bad economic data and we can see that the US economy is not in the edge of the abyss anymore, the US economy is spinning out of control and is in complete free fall, and one expect the stock market to sink further very fast – The market was down about 220 points until the afternoon and late in the day the stocks moved up and the market closed up 259 points – a change of about 479 points to the plus side.

I know this is a “suckers rally” that we have underway, but I will not be surprised in the future if I find out that the US government was behind these stock market manipulations in a very frustrating effort to place a floor on the stock market and create an artificial bottom for the stock market.

The US government could be doing stock market manipulations under assumed names or could even be using well-known corporations to do these stock market manipulations in the name of creating stock market stability.

Last Friday the stock market really smelled like stock market manipulations were going on at the end of the day, and selected stocks were bought to push the prices up on a very thin volume.

Anyway, I would not be surprised by anything that the US Treasury or the US Federal Reserve might be doing today with bailout money and God knows what else. These guys lost all the credibility that they used to have and the stock market smells like the fix is on, and there are 3 words that describes well the current essence of stock market in the USA – STINK, STINK, and STINK.
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Quote from southamerica:

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December 7, 2008

SouthAmerica: Last Friday we had a deluge of bad economic data and we can see that the US economy is not in the edge of the abyss anymore, the US economy is spinning out of control and is in complete free fall, and one expect the stock market to sink further very fast – The market was down about 220 points until the afternoon and late in the day the stocks moved up and the market closed up 259 points – a change of about 479 points to the plus side.

I know this is a “suckers rally” that we have underway, but I will not be surprised in the future if I find out that the US government was behind these stock market manipulations in a very frustrating effort to place a floor on the stock market and create an artificial bottom for the stock market.

The US government could be doing stock market manipulations under assumed names or could even be using well-known corporations to do these stock market manipulations in the name of creating stock market stability.

Last Friday the stock market really smelled like stock market manipulations were going on at the end of the day, and selected stocks were bought to push the prices up on a very thin volume.

Anyway, I would not be surprised by anything that the US Treasury or the US Federal Reserve might be doing today with bailout money and God knows what else. These guys lost all the credibility that they used to have and the stock market smells like the fix is on, and there are 3 words that describes well the current essence of stock market USA – STINK, STINK, and STINK.
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SA,

I agree with you 100%. If they are trying to corner the market, the stock market in this case to manipulate prices up or maintain a floor, they still have the problem of who to sell their bill of goods to, and it is no one that I know of at the moment.

Some thoughts.

These rallies are adding no value to the value stocks.

The derivatives are driving the price of the underlying, imo, that's where the leverage still exists.

In the past, the gov't could manipulate the market by easing the lending rates (margin requirements) and let the institutions do the market moving, I have no clue how it is being done now.
 
SA,

Thx for shedding some light on what is happening. I could not believe the rally on Friday p.m.....plus the market breadth has been decreasing.

I think they are doing whatever they can to "buy time" and promote confidence.

I understand that in mid December we will have another possible bout of deleveraging, and perhaps then, the final bottom....I mean, a temporary bottom followed by a relief rally.

Can't see any serious volume coming into the market til the New Year.
 
...do you not find it odd that many, many, many traders are going to <i>feel</i> the same way - at the exact moment the market shifts into a new bull rally?

Just trade the market - it'll sort itself out.

:D
 
Quote from paysense:

...do you not find it odd that many, many, many traders are going to <i>feel</i> the same way - at the exact moment the market shifts into a new bull rally?

Just trade the market - it'll sort itself out.

:D
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You wer bearish (on Nov. 21, 2008) when NDX was at 1025.

Now you are bullish when NDX is at 1225 (200 points above the bottom! How do you make money?

As the readers of RFT financialtraders blog have watched it in real-time today,
RFT played the market today on short side. All trades were winners but made only 34NDX points!

I ended the day with a short quarter of normal size position for overnight.

Paysense opinion is good news for my short position!

Are futures up or down this evening? % change please?

:p
 
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