Talent/Giftedness In Trading

Fundlord said:
I was watching an interview with Jack D Schwager, author of the "market wizards" and he said that everyone can probably make a decent return and improve their trading but only a few gifted people will make millions/billions in the markets.

Just like not everyone will become Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Floyd Mayweather. TALENT + HARD WORK + A LITTLE LUCK IS NEEDED TO REACH THE VERY VERY TOP.

Jesse Livermore is the closest I can think of a talented trader, gifted at birth. Ran away from home, started trading in his early teens and made and lost fortunes. Wrote his own ticket through the markets. Just had a natural intuition for the whole thing.

In sports talent is spotted by being the best among your competition, but among trading
is it just the guy who has the most money ?

If you were looking for basketball talent you would observe who can dunk, shoot 3s, assist and have great game intelligence.

If you were searching for the next trading star what would you look for?

Someone who can take losses well ?
Someone who can take big risks at the right time ?
Someone who can reverse positions on a dime ?
Someone who is just right at calling market direction seemingly all the time ?
Someone who has perfect emotional control ?
Someone who is tenacious, never letting anything affect them ?
Someone who is great with numbers/maths ?
Someone who is a pscychopath and only cares about making money in the markets ? (Livermore's life was the markets hence he committed suicide when he couldn't play the game the way he wanted to anymore)

What are the traits that really make someone a "gifted trader" who could go the distance.

I have always just been interested in the nature vs nurture debate.
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Trading can be regarded as timing strategy(s) combined with a sizing strategy. Math is pretty much worthless for timing AFAICT. Creativity is much more valuable. For sizing, math is indispensable ... unless you get too much of it. Mathematicians are surprisingly (to me) inept at figuring out optimal position sizing. Apparently after a certain amount of math training, the obvious is no longer obvious. :D
John Merchant said:
Fucking mathematicians. There are days I wish I wasn't one. Just led me ass-tray for years in the markets.
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Fundlord said:
Someone who can take losses well ? - Yes
Someone who can manage risk..., and is not risk adverse ?- Yes/ modified
Someone who can reverse positions on a dime ?- Yes
Someone who has emotional control ?- Yes/ modified
Someone who is tenacious, never letting anything affect them ?- Yes
Someone who is competent with numbers/maths ?- Yes / modified
Someone who only focuses on taking money from the markets ?- Yes / modified
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Fundlord said:
Someone who is just right at calling market direction seemingly all the time ?- Removed
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jmo

RN
 
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Fundlord said:
Someone who can take losses well ? NEVER, frustrating, I don't see myself losing.
Someone who can take big risks at the right time ? NEVER, big risks equates to lack of education
Someone who can reverse positions on a dime ? YES, if signal to do so
Someone who is just right at calling market direction seemingly all the time ? Horrible, but excellent taking signals
Someone who has perfect emotional control ? Control yes but identify what emotions are screaming to me is usually wrong
Someone who is tenacious, never letting anything affect them ? Tunnel vision when I trade
Someone who is great with numbers/maths ? Majored in Accounting/Pro-Gambler long ago Football/Baseball/Basketball/Hockey/Horses/Blackjack understanding odds/risk
Someone who is a pscychopath and only cares about making money in the markets ? MOST are doing time in the big house, think all eventually get caught. I concentrate on risk and probabilities.
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IMHO the difference between mediocrity and greatness in trading comes down to emotional discipline/control, patience and a balanced constitution for risk. However, there is certain knowlege that is required to be known, and the trader can either acquire that knowledge through observation or from other traders. This is not one piece of knowledge, there are several of them. I have picked up enough of them (mainly through observation) to do fairly well most of the time, however, I know there are more that I need to acquire.

Case in point, the Turtles. The ones that had the right psychology, when given the right knowlege made millions. Would they have gotten that far if they had had to acquire that knowlege on their own? Doubt it.
 
Just in case Handle's response is overlooked:

QUOTE=Handle123

Someone who can take losses well ? NEVER, frustrating, I don't see myself losing.

Someone who can take big risks at the right time ? NEVER, big risks equates to lack of education

Someone who can reverse positions on a dime ? YES, if signal to do so

Someone who is just right at calling market direction seemingly all the time ? Horrible, but excellent taking signals

Someone who has perfect emotional control ? Control yes but identify what emotions are screaming to me is usually wrong

Someone who is tenacious, never letting anything affect them ? Tunnel vision when I trade

Someone who is great with numbers/maths ? Majored in Accounting/Pro-Gambler long ago Football/Baseball/Basketball/Hockey/Horses/Blackjack understanding odds/risk

Someone who is a pscychopath and only cares about making money in the markets ? MOST are doing time in the big house, think all eventually get caught. I concentrate on risk and probabilities.
 
I think a good trader has three qualities:

1. They are intelligent and knowledgable : that is they can understand the issues at hand. For a stat arb trader that could be understanding math; a biotech long short trader, understanding the medical science; macro trader, understanding current economics; fundamental trader, understanding accounting and business.

2. They have the ability to take risk.


3. Wisdom : they are able to process the information they obtained from #1 and come to the right conclusions. This is the hardest trait for people to identify because if you have it you know you have it through positive feedback and if you don't you lack the skill to recognize the negative feedback.

Look at all the great traders/investors. They have all these three traits.
 
That's someone of the 80s or 90s generation asking...too lazy to do a simple search on this site and rtff. This topic has been debated on this site ad absurdum.

So, definitely thinking in simple, logical terms is one of the many ingredients. Call it "Unconscious competence" ;-)

And funny how almost every participant in this particular thread seems to be banking good coin by self proclamation. Apparently this site is full of trading wizards. Something at ET never changes. Lmfao.

Fundlord said:
I was watching an interview with Jack D Schwager, author of the "market wizards" and he said that everyone can probably make a decent return and improve their trading but only a few gifted people will make millions/billions in the markets.

Just like not everyone will become Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Floyd Mayweather. TALENT + HARD WORK + A LITTLE LUCK IS NEEDED TO REACH THE VERY VERY TOP.

Jesse Livermore is the closest I can think of a talented trader, gifted at birth. Ran away from home, started trading in his early teens and made and lost fortunes. Wrote his own ticket through the markets. Just had a natural intuition for the whole thing.

In sports talent is spotted by being the best among your competition, but among trading
is it just the guy who has the most money ?

If you were looking for basketball talent you would observe who can dunk, shoot 3s, assist and have great game intelligence.

If you were searching for the next trading star what would you look for?

Someone who can take losses well ?
Someone who can take big risks at the right time ?
Someone who can reverse positions on a dime ?
Someone who is just right at calling market direction seemingly all the time ?
Someone who has perfect emotional control ?
Someone who is tenacious, never letting anything affect them ?
Someone who is great with numbers/maths ?
Someone who is a pscychopath and only cares about making money in the markets ? (Livermore's life was the markets hence he committed suicide when he couldn't play the game the way he wanted to anymore)

What are the traits that really make someone a "gifted trader" who could go the distance.

I have always just been interested in the nature vs nurture debate.
More...
 
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newwurldmn said:
I think a good trader has three qualities:

1. They are intelligent and knowledgable : that is they can understand the issues at hand. For a stat arb trader that could be understanding math; a biotech long short trader, understanding the medical science; macro trader, understanding current economics; fundamental trader, understanding accounting and business.

2. They have the ability to take risk.

3. Wisdom : they are able to process the information they obtained from #1 and come to the right conclusions. This is the hardest trait for people to identify because if you have it you know you have it through positive feedback and if you don't you lack the skill to recognize the negative feedback.

Look at all the great traders/investors. They have all these three traits.
More...

They might all have these traits, but they might all also have brown hair. (Forgive the flippancy)

Knowledge, ability, and wisdom are indeed important. But beginning and not-so-beginning traders think that they can acquire this knowledge and ability and wisdom without ever studying and characterizing their markets. Thus they continue to fail. But rather than seek the reasons for their failure, they just continue making the same mistakes with increased fervor, insisting to themselves (and others) that it will all work out in the end.

It won't.
 
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