Take the Index Piker Challenge

Quote from Jesus:

Boy you just don't get it do you. By documenting your p/l you are in effect measuring your performance weekly, daily, maybe even hourly. To be an index investor you need to think multiple years. Anything less you are a trader. You should only be monitoring your account once a quarter at the most, yet you are bragging about weekly results. Not long term in my opinion.

You call yourself a passive index investor yet you ignore the biggest and most important part of that, Focusing on the long term (many years) and ignoring the short term (less than a year).
Theres nothing passive about gloating about a week of gains.

Why would you document your p/l every day or weekly as a passive investor? I will continue to focus on the long term and lets look at each others p/l 10 years from now. I could care less how you are doing 4 months from now.

Too funny I hadn't even calculated year to date until I started this journal.
We all know how short term oriented traders are I calculated the week for the benefit of others.

Personally I'd rather not know because it could lead to poor behavior.
 
Quote from Jesus:

I agree, a passive index portfolio beats 95% of traders. But, you do not have a passive index portfolio. You have a short term minded, excessively leveraged trading account.

Also, your not just here to say passive indexing outperforms. You came on here BRAGGING about your 90% return this year. Your post about a 10.4% gain in one week is very telling. You have an ego, you are not very humble. You (maybe subconsiously) want to show all these traders how your methods are superior and how you are so much better. If you were a true indexer I probably would have never posted in this thread in the first place. But your not. You are a trader, and one with an ego bigger than kanye West's.

Too funny I was constantly being badgered to post proof of my returns by hermit and mandlebrotset and now you are going ape $hit because I actually had the outrageous audacity to follow through.:p
 
Quote from Index piker:

Too funny I was constantly being badgered to post proof of my returns by hermit and mandlebrotset and now you are going ape $hit because I actually had the outrageous audacity to follow through.:p

Right. You posted your 90% return and bragged about it for 11 pages because you were being badgered. Whatever you say.

Why would you even bother devouting a whole journal to showing others your continous p/l. Why show others your account every day or week, if you are just an index investor. If a trader wanted to know how he was doing against an index he could just check the S&P or russel or some popular mutual fund. OH YEAH, we all need to know how much smarter you are than all of us and how your "index portfolio" is doing.

All of this still doesn't explain why you posted that weekly result. Nobody asked for that. That was very telling to your mindset.

Good luck in your TRADING.
 
I understand what you really want... which is proof that something elusive (to you so far) actually exists. You're saying the same thing as "show me a bigfoot skeleton" in your mind.

I don't see why I am obligated to offer proof. My trading pays a shitload of bills, datafeeds, Bloomberg and salaries for a couple trading assistants. My trading has accumulated enough money that I have been able to hire people over the past 5 years, train some of them to trade, and send them out on their own.

What I did offer is a "system" you can verify with a single night's hard work (not even that hard) which will prove to you that inefficiencies do exist. My trading of those is somewhat irrelevant since my results are a joint test of the tendency, my position sizing, leverage (or lack thereof), etc...

As for you saying you won't post your entries, no I don't, as a fellow trader, understand that. Don't be silly... you can hit the market button on $10M SPY without the market even blinking (depending on the time of day... wouldn't recommend it but I've done it in an emergency and got less than .02 slippage.) so unless you are trading gargantuan size no one cares where your entries are, etc.

I find this thread kind of sad because I suspect the motivation behind it is someone who's had a rough time, who's lost faith that trading is even possible, is kind of grasping at some kind of proof. I understand that but the tone is wrong and that proof is not going to be forthcoming from my statements.

Quote from Index piker:

Claiming to out perform me but failing to offer any proof is rather laughable.
 
I want other people to post their results, for amusement and obviously to see what opportunities I may have ahead of me, and thus I will post mine.

I started trading at the end of August 2008 and made many mistakes like overleveraging right before Lehman Brothers went bankrupt. Also, I didn't really know what I was doing until August of this year and I keep finding new sources of alpha. In all I've made about to 200 trades since I started with an average holding period of about 10 days and an average alpha of around 3%/trade after all trading costs (includes trades I made with systems outside of my goto system, these trades all together have cost me about $15000 since I didn't know what I was getting into). Additionally I should note that the 3% average alpha has a 95% confidence interval of 2.5%-3.5% about.

Attached are my results in an excel spreadsheet. I'll also include a picture of my time weighted time series return generated within Interactive Brokers portfolio analysis tool in account management. My next post has this file for verification purposes.

Is there a better way for showing authentic interactive brokers results by the way?
 

Attachments

yes read that, plus you stated later on that your risk level is in line with broad market measures while your returns vastly exceed the ones of those. So, I simply stated that you handle the term "risk" very loosely, one time you state you run an aggressive risk another time you claim you perform passive indexing. I am pretty sure most actually get kind of confused what it is really that you are doing...it surely has NOTHING to do with indexing.

Quote from Index piker:

BS. I never made such a statement.

I specifically disclosed in this post to flatron 5th post of the thread. Please get your facts straight.
 
I dont even care about this guy's performance. To begin with, anyone can make up statements, secondly, at certain risk levels you can generate 400% returns in a week if you are lucky enough that one single week. The next week the account may be nil. So, whats the point...

What I have an issue with is that this guy is completely confused about index investing. The risk he is running vastly exceeds anything that would be considered prudent or that stays in the region of the index risk itself. To start with, the risk alone already disqualifies his trading style from ever be called passive indexing. Total nonsense. And he gets all agitated when being asked about his 2008 performance, lol. Guess why....


Quote from Jesus:

I agree, a passive index portfolio beats 95% of traders. But, you do not have a passive index portfolio. You have a short term minded, excessively leveraged trading account.

Also, your not just here to say passive indexing outperforms. You came on here BRAGGING about your 90% return this year. Your post about a 10.4% gain in one week is very telling. You have an ego, you are not very humble. You (maybe subconsiously) want to show all these traders how your methods are superior and how you are so much better. If you were a true indexer I probably would have never posted in this thread in the first place. But your not. You are a trader, and one with an ego bigger than kanye West's.

Maybe a part of you wants to educate others about passive indexing, but most of you just wants to show everyone how you nailed a 90% return and can piss farther than all the other boys.

Your leveraged, dangerous portfolio, GOT LUCKY, due to 8 months of bull market. I CAN"T WAIT TO SEE HOW THOSE LEVERAGED ETFS DO OVER TIME, AND HOW THEY FARE IN THE NEXT BEAR MARKET, WHENEVER THAT IS.

Good luck, your gonna need it
 
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