TA - Objective or Psychological Skill?

Quote from bighog:

Volume usage compared to price usage in TA are separate and UNEQUAL. When making an assumption about price moving from level A to level B we all look at prior price action and not the amount of volume that was involved.
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This is one too many generalization ... ok, you don't look at volume, but it doesn't mean nobody does.

I, for one, use volume as one of the key components to identify intraday Highs & Lows, which I later use to decode price-action. Prior volume - or lack thereof, often makes the difference for my system, at least as to what "price-action" the system sees.

The other 2 components I use to identify intraday Highs & Lows are price & time. It took me a long time to realize that all 3 - price, volume & time - are important aspects of price-action, at least for building automated systems.
 
which harkens back to a point earlier in the thread about the Predictors. They could not make squat til they brought in a scientist who was real trader. Which is about when the book goes silent.

for instance the anti t/a crowd say whether the market is up or down is random.

The trader says... well what if we recently saw a 52 week high we had a two day pullback and the price of oil is down. How do I like the trade at morning support. How I put enough of the recent tendencies in my favor.

When you trade well you take a lot of factors and make good decisions.
When you lose you see all those things afterwards.
When you lose a lot you say none of those things work.

In short perhaps you were just not cut out for trading.
Although I don't play poker much when you play with friends you can see that some people can't handle risk and probabilities with where there are at that stage of their lives. Then sometimes things change and all of a sudden they play better. Luck? yeah some of it.. but approach is another factor.









Quote from cornix:

There's a huge difference between people who research something and people who do something. My own PhD status and the fact I am 5th generation of PhD's in a row allows me to say with full responsibility that outsider study of any event is far not enough to make conclusions.

To perform truly thorough test of any SINGLE TA pattern would require from a researcher knowledge of every microscopic nuance of it and rules of application, which therefore would demand months of full time study... only to understand ONE pattern to be able to test it somewhat close to how successful trader uses it.

So bottom line: anyone who wants to become a trader better listen to what profitable traders say, not what academic researches conclude.
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Quote from atticus:

I had no idea it was a mini until your post. Oh well.
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i was trading them for .50 to .85 gain in size and was thinking what money i was making..wild good fills, etc..on one of those gold vol weeks early on...but couldn't find the 850 bucks per spread gain in my PnL...i was wtf...then i read a little and was massively dejected to find it was a mini mofo.

needless to say i stopped trading them and still pissed.
 
Quote from jem:

which harkens back to a point earlier in the thread about the Predictors. They could not make squat til they brought in a scientist who was real trader. Which is about when the book goes silent.

for instance the anti t/a crowd say whether the market is up or down is random.

The trader says... well what if we recently saw a 52 week high we had a two day pullback and the price of oil is down. How do I like the trade at morning support. How I put enough of the recent tendencies in my favor.

When you trade well you take a lot of factors and make good decisions.
When you lose you see all those things afterwards.
When you lose a lot you say none of those things work.

In short perhaps you were just not cut out for trading.
Although I don't play poker much when you play with friends you can see that some people can't handle risk and probabilities with where there are at that stage of their lives. Then sometimes things change and all of a sudden they play better. Luck? yeah some of it.. but approach is another factor.
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You seem to lean toward intramarket analysis, Jem. There is proven value in this type of study. My issue with TA is the folks on this thread who claim they only look at one instrument, learn its patterns, then have the ability to trade at a high accuracy rate. This is rubbish. surf
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

If it was futures, I would reccomend the combine untill you can learn how to read the DOM and/or interpret intraday news events to pass, then trade with the firms money.

surf
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Can you provide links to a few TST-funded traders who passed the combine using either DOM-reading, or interpretation of intraday news events (without using technical analysis of price action for "interpreting")?

Rawman here on ET said he uses price action.

A trader I'm familiar with who recently got funded uses a strategy based on technical analysis of price action. In his own words: I trade with momentum. I start my day by doing a basic top-down analysis from daily to trading time frame. I mark major support and resistance zones and channels. I don't use any predictive indicators or oscillators. I use EMA 21 for general guidance and I use zig-zag for anchoring and knowing sizes of rotations and legs. I trade normally from just one chart but currently I use a secondary chart with range bars and Keltner channel to look inside bars of my main chart. (BTW, this description could apply to my trading almost note-for-note.)

http://www.topsteptrader.com/ViewProfile/raa/0/p/0

Notice the winning streaks he had during his combine. That's one helluva a lot of luck if you believe TA is a delusion where gifted traders profit despite it not because of it.

I'm not sure how Crispy trades. Maybe he's one of those who's escaped the delusion of TA and trades off the DOM or off of non-TA/PA interpretation of news events.
 
Quote from NoDoji:

Can you provide links to a few TST-funded traders who passed the combine using either DOM-reading, or interpretation of intraday news events (without using technical analysis of price action for "interpreting")?

Rawman here on ET said he uses price action.

A trader I'm familiar with who recently got funded uses a strategy based on technical analysis of price action. In his own words: I trade with momentum. I start my day by doing a basic top-down analysis from daily to trading time frame. I mark major support and resistance zones and channels. I don't use any predictive indicators or oscillators. I use EMA 21 for general guidance and I use zig-zag for anchoring and knowing sizes of rotations and legs. I trade normally from just one chart but currently I use a secondary chart with range bars and Keltner channel to look inside bars of my main chart. (BTW, this description could apply to my trading almost note-for-note.)

http://www.topsteptrader.com/ViewProfile/raa/0/p/0

Notice the winning streaks he had during his combine. That's one helluva a lot of luck if you believe TA is a delusion where gifted traders profit despite it not because of it.

I'm not sure how Crispy trades. Maybe he's one of those who's escaped the delusion of TA and trades off the DOM or off of non-TA/PA interpretation of news events.
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I predict he will not last a year if he doesn't change up his belief system.

I hope I am 100% wrong, but that's what I would bet on. But what do I know? he may be just one of the gifted few who can actually trade that way.

surf
 
Quote from NoDoji:

Can you provide links to a few TST-funded traders who passed the combine using either DOM-reading, or interpretation of intraday news events (without using technical analysis of price action for "interpreting")?
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Surf, this was a "yes" or "no" question.

I'm pretty sure you've never yet provided a response that actually serves as a direct answer to anything I've ever asked you.

I know, I know...moving...baby...answers to come later :p :p

You'd be a slam-dunk politician or marketer...

:D
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

I predict he will not last a year if he doesn't change up his belief system.

surf
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So now you are in the business of predictions.

Surfie old chap, sometimes I can't help but think you could single-handedly fill a cess pool.
 
Quote from NoDoji:

Surf, this was a "yes" or "no" question.

I'm pretty sure you've never yet provided a response that actually serves as a direct answer to anything I've ever asked you.

I know, I know...moving...baby...answers to come later :p :p

You'd be a slam-dunk politician or marketer...

:D
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I'm sorry, I missed the initial question. No, I do not know any one who passed the combine with DOM reading or using news.

But I do know a wide variety of extraordinarlly succesful traders who scoff at the use of TA and price action. In fact, I dont' personally know one succesful TA trader who is wealthy from price action TA trading.
surf
 
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