Swing Trading >> Daytrading

[AbbotAle]

Swings happen just as much on the 1m chart as they do on any of the higher timeframes.

So if one is a successful swing trader on say the 1D their methods and strategies would work just as well on the 1m. Look at the 1m chart for example on the Dow futures. ALL year has been one big profitfest for any half decent swing trader.

Throw in the compounding effect, which is always turbo-charged on the 1m, and any solid swing trader will do great. Try it.

And for those that think the 1m is too fast, it's not but it is of course a lot faster than the 1D. Plus, good trades shouldn't sneak up on you, the best often take some bars to develop so plenty of time to act on the 1m.

 

[AbbotAle]

not all days are good for daytrading.

EVERY day in Cable is great for day trading, even on the big US holidays there's still some action.

And pretty much every day on the Dow as well for day trading. I don't know what the average range was for last year (this year obviously a lot different) but I reckon it would be at least 80-100 ticks. More than enough for some good trades to kick in.

Remember, the Boys need movement so they're experts in creating it. Always reminds me of the famous Hollywood agent Lefty Lazaar's quote - 'Sometimes I arrive at the office and nothing is happeing, so I MAKE something happen'. That's the mentality of the Boys, they make things happen so the trick is to figure out their game and join them.

 

[AbbotAle]

Dow futures versus ES.

I always like how the Dow charts with the 1 ticks, versus the ES with those damn quarters.

Dow therefore charts a lot better IMHO.

 

[easymon1]

DAX, ES & NQ

he sun

Akhaldanos, Have you noticed any tendency for the DAX to Lead the ES as the world turns from there to here?
Larry Pesavento comments on Dax and FTSE first thing each day on tfnn com tiger tv at 9:am and youtube archives of all shows, which means his interpretatins can be scanned from a couple weeks ago and see what happend after his analysis. A quick way by spend 30 mins to click through a few of his shows to take a few notes and decide if it can offer anything wallet-worthy.

I'm not clear that Swing Trading and Day Trading are mutually exclusive.
Going with your premise tho...
Swing trading charts of Day bars would for me, be like work. I hate to wait so a ton of wachful waiting sitting on hands, while stops representing risk equal to reward but fewer iterations per security would require juggling many plates at once, as opposed to a day trader juggling fewer plates with more frequent entry exit cycles and tighter stops.

Day trading is an easier way to get a lot of trades under the belt for any new technique or method, say Double Tops, that may become interesting. Your Mileage May Vary - Double Tops can start yielding profitable results in under a week starting from a google search and looking at 25 examples on 1,5m charts and next thing you know you still trading your candlesticks at SandR and adding and blending the Double Tops, to booking some cash. Blood simple and not too hard to pick out on a chart.
If i had to wait for Double Tops, hammers, engulfings on a day chart, i'm growing a beard just thinking about it, lol Further, When such features appear on one index they appear on a lot of charts, including bonds, commodities, etc. It's feast or famine.

With day trading, a sideways channel is a beautiful thing to trade as far as i'm concerned, though they are an endangered species since march, but on a day chart that's just chop during most prior years. 2020 is a leetle bit different, imho.

It looks like the same tools are there to be used, Day candles or 5m charts, so the skills would be transferrable I would think. Swing trading intraday may go on under a different name when ever a day trader watches prior highs and lows, but uses technical analysis to trigger and exit.

On the plus side for Swingin Day Candles, It is understandable that one looooong NQ trade can yield some very very nice booty.

If you wamt to share any specifics of your method, i'm sure a lot of us could benefit from your experience. If that's the case, would love to hear more. Either way it's all good.

Larry Pesavento frequently shows charts with time cycles, astro-cycles and other time based stuff if that's of interest, his bread and butter has been fibs from day one. He got hired out of Eli Lilly in Indiana to "just keep doing what you have been doing" for about 25 clients, and from there in the seventies till tomorrow morning and beyond he will still be using them. Great stories from his career peppered here and there. Guy's a freakin war horse, pleasant delivery, and loves the game. Again, a quick perusal of his archived shows on youtube can be a time effective way to look in on his method and check his results to see if anything resonates.

 

[Akhaldanos]

Swing trading charts of Day bars would for me, be like work. I hate to wait so a ton of wachful waiting sitting on hands, while stops representing risk equal to reward but fewer iterations per security would require juggling many plates at once, as opposed to a day trader juggling fewer plates with more frequent entry exit cycles and tighter stops.

Day trading is an easier way to get a lot of trades under the belt for any new technique or method, say Double Tops, that may become interesting. Your Mileage May Vary - Double Tops can start yielding profitable results in under a week starting from a google search and looking at 25 examples on 1,5m charts and next thing you know you still trading your candlesticks at SandR and adding and blending the Double Tops, to booking some cash. Blood simple and not too hard to pick out on a chart.
If i had to wait for Double Tops, hammers, engulfings on a day chart, i'm growing a beard just thinking about it,

Exactly.

Akhaldanos, Have you noticed any tendency for the DAX to Lead the ES as the world turns from there to here?

Generally, one may say so, but I am not using it. As soon as US opens, NQ & ES are beasts on their own, irrespective of what DAX has done in Europe.

 

[maxinger]

Nothing beats day and night trading.

 

[wrbtrader]

This is my honest opinion, any day traders (If there is any successful ones) care to debate?

Daytrading may be better in terms of a smoother equity curve if done successfully,
but for long term pure returns, nothing beats swing trading.

It is way easier to lose money in daytrading when you overtrade and commission
eats to your profit, intraday movements are smaller compared to swing trading.
Thus, profits are smaller with more fees incurred. You really have to pick your spots
to have a meaningful trade. It is way easier to make mistakes in daytrading.

Why debate about it ?

If you're successful at swing trading...stick with it.

Just the same, if you're successful at day trading...stick with it.

Yet, if you're not successful in one of the above...try the other.

There is a difference in nuances of execution. Day trading is more dependent upon your broker trade execution platform in comparison to Swing Trading. The cost involved in day trading is obviously much higher than swing trading.

Regardless, if you're profitable in one or the other, you'll most likely not waste your time really debating about which is better especially if you've only tried one and not the other.

wrbtrader

 

[ironchef]

The lesser you trade the less chance for a mistake.
If the price movements are dire for swing trading, what makes you think day trading will be profitable?

It all depends on your win rate and expectancy, i.e., probability and statistics play a major role on how you should trade.

It may be counter intuitive. Let's say your method is like playing Russian Roulette (selling DOTM puts > 95% win, for example), the smaller the number of you trade the less likelihood you get kill. So you want to leverage to the hilt, trade a few times and quit.

If your style and method is like VC (buying DOTM puts to hunt for black swan < 5%), the smaller the number of your trade the less likelihood you get your swan. So you want to trade as many times as possible to increase your chance of bagging one.

From my observation, winning traders on ET claimed win rate of 60%-70% with a certain positive expectancy. In this case if the expectancy is identical, it favors day trading, especially in today's zero commission environment, because of the number of trades they can execute.

I am an amateur, I invite the professionals among us to critique what I wrote.

 

[Real Money]

Great traders can do both. There are opportunities in the market all the time. If you know what to look for, you can find them.

You should be able to think both like a swing and daytrader when the time is right. Both can make very good money.

An example I learned about, is that you can buy SPX and sell DJX in order to get exposure to NDX, if you do it right. That type of trade is traditionally a swing trader's trade. But it will setup intraday, and you can use your skills as a daytrader to time it.

 

[deaddog]

Daytrader; Your risk is limited to how you react to what the market gives you. Being flat at the end of the day you are not exposed to overnight events which may cause your position to change drastically.

Swing Trader; Less stress, no need to sit in front of a computer all day, more time to do other things. Risk has to be managed differently.

Your returns in each case depend of your skill as a trader.