Swing Trade Play 11/11/05

Personally I don't like the trade either (swing trade)and being long from 1239 would have been a preferable approach than being short 1239. But who knows the future trade of any instrument.

What I prefer to glean while reading Macro's posts is his ability to think outside the box. His trading is not static as most traders. Go long, set a stop and profit target and pray. (Or maybe... be prey). It is his non-linear thinking and different approach that is most interesting and refreshing. You would do well in understanding some of his methodologies.

What I prefer to concentrate on is that he has been short since 1239 in what I consider to be perhaps the most bullish 3 week period we've had all year, and he's still made money on the trade. Pretty impressive.

Regards,
Dave Scott


BTW...His Ratio-trade is absolute brilliance


P.S. I think "they" will take out the 1273 level and finish the year higher gunning for the 1281...1285 level etc ....And Macro... well he still will make money on the trade.
:D :D
 
wdscott


Registered: May 2003
Posts: 204


11-11-05 10:58 PM

Hi Surf,

Very interesting post, Thanks.

Some time ago I had the opportunity to witness a trader, in person, with a different approach to the markets. Instead of the traditional "static" trade where one had an entry, stop, and profit targets only. His method had all that, plus a management method that made it somehow entirely different.


At first glance, his management method appeared to be a Martingale scheme, just ripe for ruin. But watching him work his positions, adjusting his cost basis, talking scalps, watching price action, and flipping his direction when needed, I realized this was a far more aggressive method than mine, yet at the same time it was quite defensive. The method was not complicated, but definitely not something you read in "Daytrade your way to a fortune". Actually, many trading activities he did, seemed to contradict "the correct" things I've learnt and read about the markets. And his success is far greater than mine.

Since that experience, I have come across a few traders, here on ET that do similar things. Not precisely the same, but similar in that their approach to the market is both "aggressive and non-conventional". I definitely think dying a death of a thousand cuts, isn't all it's cracked up to be. And defensive trading is only the half of it.


In the end, true success is bestowed with the "aggressors".


Good Trading,
Dave

*************************************************


Correct me if I am wrong sir, but you are saying that you have witnessed MacroEvent trade? and/or you are certain that these order replacements actually generate profits?

The above post certainly appears that you are referring to MacroEvent.
 
Jackbyrd --- he is probably talking about Billy from the IOAMT chat room --- but what i am doing is the same style or mentality of trading that is taught for participants of the IOAMT room only i do this in a swing trade {while during the day i am taking almost all of the IOAMT room intra-day scalps and also i have an "automated" ratio-trade on 24/7}.

everyday i am in two different types of ES trades and several times a year i am in three separate ES trades when i have a swing position in play.

i do IOAMT room ES scalps

i watch the "automated" ES ratio trade

and then several times a year i am in a ES swing trade {8 so far this year}


so intraday i take long and short trades from the IOAMT room plays --- my ratio trade is long and short during the day --- and my swing trades are one directional.

on occasion i have made specific trade entry calls in Billy's room if i see something of importance from the buy/sell program tracking that i do that may bring a higher probability to the trades that we are already taking --- i have also called out my trades at times in two other chatrooms in the past but i do not remember if WDScott was in the rooms at the time --- hey may or may not have as i am not sure.
 
Quote from wdscott:

Personally I don't like the trade either (swing trade)and being long from 1239 would have been a preferable approach than being short 1239. But who knows the future trade of any instrument.

What I prefer to glean while reading Macro's posts is his ability to think outside the box. His trading is not static as most traders. Go long, set a stop and profit target and pray. (Or maybe... be prey). It is his non-linear thinking and different approach that is most interesting and refreshing. You would do well in understanding some of his methodologies.

What I prefer to concentrate on is that he has been short since 1239 in what I consider to be perhaps the most bullish 3 week period we've had all year, and he's still made money on the trade. Pretty impressive.

Regards,
Dave Scott


BTW...His Ratio-trade is absolute brilliance


P.S. I think "they" will take out the 1273 level and finish the year higher gunning for the 1281...1285 level etc ....And Macro... well he still will make money on the trade.
:D :D
More...


yes i know the "pit" is watching 1281 and 1285 now like a hawk so i am fully aware of this {you are right} --- but since we do not know what the market will ACTUALLY do yet {:D} i am "flexible" and ready with my method to react accordingly.

you can never tell what the market will do and what can happen from day to day in the world --- i entered one short swing trade on 6/21 and had 6/8ths of that short swing trade still in play cover in less then an hour the day of the london bombing news {just decided to take everything off the table between 1176 on up to 1180}. the fact that i was already "in" the market when that happened was the only reason i was able to catch that type of move {because you never know what will happen next}.

if you have a method to use for swing trade entry signals that has a good track record, and you can add the flexibility from an order replacement entry management style, then you have the optimal capability for initiating these trades.


i will also add, the one important part of a swing trade is to be zeroed in on what s/r levels are key for each days intra-day moves. you have to know what levels will "if broken" cause new "responsive" buying or selling --- this is a key part of staying fully in tune during each hour of a trade day what will threaten or benefit your swing trade. if you know this information and how to use it, then you can already have plans to react to the movements of price whatever they may be --- if price breaks this level with "responsive" buying do this, and if price breaks this levels with "responsive" selling do that --- if price goes sideways then keep listening to music videos from Yahoo music {like "Ready Steady Go from Paul Oakenfold or "Hurt" from Johnny Cash --- whatever is your taste}
 
Quote from Raystonn:

Combining your strategy, minus the S/R lines, so you do a long version and a short version in the same account, you get the following:

Start out with no positions, just markers where the positions should have been. You have a long and short position at each of these markers, and thus no real position currently.

If the market goes up, "replace" the positions that would have been replaced if you were trading the short plan only. This means buying at those values a quarter point below the old markers, using a limit order, and afterward selling at the new higher marker level, also with a limit order.

If the market goes down, "replace" the positions that would have been replaced if you were trading the long plan only. This means selling at those values a quarter point above the old markers, using a limit order, and afterward buying at the new lower marker level, also with a limit order.

After running through this a few times you will see that this is really nothing more than the following: When the market goes up a bit, buy at limit a bit lower. If filled, sell at limit a bit higher. Vice versa is done if the market goes down a bit rather than up.

With the S/R lines removed and choosing not to bet on market direction, you basically have a scalping technique to capture small moves in the opposite direction of the most recent move. Could this be profitable? Possibly, but only if your commissions are very low. The profit per trade is tiny.

Could the S/R lines make this more profitable? Possibly, but I have yet to see any S/R related system consistently make money over the long term. You usually have many small gains that are offset by fewer large losses (for fade bets) or many small losses that are offset by fewer large gains (for breakout bets). The net is usually about break-even long term minus commissions.

Could the bet on market direction make this more profitable? Possibly, but if you are good at predicting market direction then you don't need any of the rest of this. Such an edge is sufficient by itself.

If I have misunderstood your strategy then I apologize. I am just trying to offer up some of my insight, albeit unsolicited.

-Raystonn
More...


yes i understand this but my mind just can't work that way very good --- i am not smart enough to trade this way. now i do something close to this in my ratio trade but that is automated so i do not mess it up {exceptionally difficult to trade ratio manually --- like when news hits}.
 
Quote from MacroEvent:

i will also add, the one important part of a swing trade is to be zeroed in on what s/r levels are key for each days intra-day moves. you have to know what levels will "if broken" cause new "responsive" buying or selling --- this is a key part of staying fully in tune during each hour of a trade day what will threaten or benefit your swing trade. if you know this information and how to use it, then you can already have plans to react to the movements of price whatever they may be --- if price breaks this level with "responsive" buying do this, and if price breaks this levels with "responsive" selling do that --- if price goes sideways then keep listening to music videos from Yahoo music {like "Ready Steady Go from Paul Oakenfold or "Hurt" from Johnny Cash --- whatever is your taste}
More...


i must say this methods sucks baLLS :)
Worst swing trading strategy ever shown on ET :)

I think anybody with 2 brain cells can emulate this same strategy, which makes it so ZzZzZzz

Its a wonder you are not blown up yet, I think its imaginary though, but whatever works :)

Don't know, but I believe for most people on ET , its just annoying to watch someone trade such a bs strategy and keeps on reaffirming to himself its a good system

"Let me order replace! "

:) :) :) :)


btw I noticed you keep on saying "being in the market all the times is important so you don't miss a move"

Maybe you just started trading, but to me, I can be in the market in 1/2 seconds notice by hitting a buy or sell.
Which trading world are you in?

Just admit it:

<h2>
You have no idea how price action works :)
</h2>
 
Another question if I may. Have you considered implementing this strategy to a spread trade. Perhaps YM/ES, NQ/ES or ER2/ES, something along these lines?
 
coolweb -- at least i know this is not the only thread here at ET where you can't seem to find friends --- LOL! :D :D :D

what is hilarious though is that i have made over 20 ES points for the trade being "wrong" for the correct entry and it seems in the ET chat room you can't make a dime while thinking you are right!

_____________________________________________________________________

jackbyrd


Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 162


12-02-05 10:47 PM



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from coolweb:

Did a few trades today

mostly all breakeven trades.
one -1 tick trade

market had no follow up,

but I will filter these days out in the future.

Steve,

I don't trade like you, Not every big up or down day is something I look for.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Translation:

CoolWhip got his ass handed to him today.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

wow they are punking you in that other thread {treacherous path to 200K}! :D :eek: :D
 
Quote from jackbyrd:

Another question if I may. Have you considered implementing this strategy to a spread trade. Perhaps YM/ES, NQ/ES or ER2/ES, something along these lines?
More...


yes that could be done i suppose --- may work very well actually.
 
LOL lets copy and paste more of jackbyrd the non traders posts :)
very good source.

no.


But seriously,
You couldn't trade yourself out of an indian fur outpost :)

I say this not as an after the fact,

but Post #3 in this thread :)


Come on now, you can't be serious thinking you know how to trade , DON'T LIE TO US! :) :)


Time to start opening the trading 101 books and learn what support and resistance is :)

I think you should start taking up some of woodies CCI classes as well to sharpen up those entries :))

EXPERT ORDER REPLACER!
 
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