First of all you don't make 50% of your gross at Swift. The best you can do is something like 46% and getting to that level is pretty unlikely. Please stop lying to make yourself feel better. Additionally I would hardly describe what you do at Swift to be "trading". You guys aren't traders so please stop calling yourselves that. It's insulting to those of us who ARE actual traders. If you don't believe me try getting a job on the street with Swift on your resume.........good luck!
Swift changing the deal
- Thread starter momo trader99
- Start date
First of all you don't make 50% of your gross at Swift. The best you can do is something like 46% and getting to that level is pretty unlikely. Please stop lying to make yourself feel better. Additionally I would hardly describe what you do at Swift to be "trading". You guys aren't traders so please stop calling yourselves that. It's insulting to those of us who ARE actual traders. If you don't believe me try getting a job on the street with Swift on your resume.........good luck!
Traders throughout the 5 branches that i follow average 100-300 per day on average. There is about 50 traders i'd guess throughout these 5 branches. thats 5000-15000 net per day that is being split up. so assuming each branch makes say 500 per day, 10000 per month...... wtf is wrong with that. Not everyone needs to make 50 billion dollars a year to feel good. I'd love to see what the average retail trader makes.
We all know swift isnt an elite mega institution where every trader makes 100k+ a year, but yet everyone who doesnt work there or failed there seems to think thats they should personally crusade to end the company?! Lots of people are making a great living, and lots arent. Those who suck quit and those who are good make good money, just like every other industry/job in the entire world.
We all know swift isnt an elite mega institution where every trader makes 100k+ a year, but yet everyone who doesnt work there or failed there seems to think thats they should personally crusade to end the company?! Lots of people are making a great living, and lots arent. Those who suck quit and those who are good make good money, just like every other industry/job in the entire world.
I must also add that i have learned it doesnt matter how you trade, only if you make money. It doesnt matter if you scalp, swing trade, arb, whatever.... If you make money, then you are a good trader. There is no hidden rule on what style you must trade to be considered a "trader".
trader
A person who buys and sells securities with the goal of profiting from short-term price swings.
Wala...
trader
A person who buys and sells securities with the goal of profiting from short-term price swings.
Wala...
Szeven,
WTF is wrong with that
10k ber branch
-3000-6000k on rent
-fiber optics
-loans on equipment
-office cleaning
-phones
-any employees
-PROFIT A MANGER SHOULD MAKE
IT LEAVES NOTHING NADA THATS WITH WRONG WITH THAT.OPEN YOUR EYES 10k is alot for you because you probably make 3k a month.where are you going in life with 3-5k profit per month.your kids going to private school,you plan on buying a house going for dinners taking a vacation. I hate it when idiots try to make a point.
momo
New Post 05-28-05 09:42 PM
Traders throughout the 5 branches that i follow average 100-300 per day on average. There is about 50 traders i'd guess throughout these 5 branches. thats 5000-15000 net per day that is being split up. so assuming each branch makes say 500 per day, 10000 per month...... wtf is wrong with that. Not everyone needs to make 50 billion dollars a year to feel good. I'd love to see what the average retail trader makes.
WTF is wrong with that
10k ber branch
-3000-6000k on rent
-fiber optics
-loans on equipment
-office cleaning
-phones
-any employees
-PROFIT A MANGER SHOULD MAKE
IT LEAVES NOTHING NADA THATS WITH WRONG WITH THAT.OPEN YOUR EYES 10k is alot for you because you probably make 3k a month.where are you going in life with 3-5k profit per month.your kids going to private school,you plan on buying a house going for dinners taking a vacation. I hate it when idiots try to make a point.
momo
New Post 05-28-05 09:42 PM
Traders throughout the 5 branches that i follow average 100-300 per day on average. There is about 50 traders i'd guess throughout these 5 branches. thats 5000-15000 net per day that is being split up. so assuming each branch makes say 500 per day, 10000 per month...... wtf is wrong with that. Not everyone needs to make 50 billion dollars a year to feel good. I'd love to see what the average retail trader makes.
What is Swift Trade?...A company or should I say "cult"..I had the unfortunate experience of being involved in a branch were they teach you NOTHING...The philosophy is simple, do 100+ trades a day, play for credits, and NEVER be offside...LOL...One stock moves against you a few cents and your whole day is ruined. Having the hawks watch your blotter non-stop and tell you " what are you doing? " your offside 1 cent, get out!....WTF?. If you call that trading, then your a good "employee" of the Swift model. Dont average down EVER?...ect..ect...The company cannot survive playing a game thats dead. The REBATE game was dead along time ago, and not alowing people to develop different strategies, or trade a different method only proves the company is doomed. Not to mention Prosper Pointless software. Making 3-5k a month and then taking 35% of that only means one thing. Work at Mcdonalds, take your $1000 net and have NO STRESS!....Why people continue to defend a company founded on LIES and bullshit is beyond me. I learned nothing while I was there. If anything I learned to play Madden 2003 and various other playstation games. Drank 10 pots of coffee and stared at disbelief as I watched people ATTN out of GREAT positions where they could have made 10+ cents, but instead flipped their shares to get their credits?.....again if this is trading, Id rather work at Mcdonalds......
Thats my .003 ATTN cents worth
Thats my .003 ATTN cents worth
I agree with your assessment of financial reward. There is just no way of making a decent amount of RISK-adjusted money at the firm. I make twice as much as the average trader there and take absolutely no risk, in fact my job is pretty chillax too, and I generally like what i'm doing. Anybody who thinks they're gonna make mad money should just look at the facts. Trading 500 share lots of mere pennies and assuming a 50/50 hit/miss ratio doesn't add up to a lot, and we aren't block trading here, so we can't keep using the same scalping strategies for 10,000 share lots.
The other problem that frustrated me with trading was how "working hard" never got you anywhere. Swift has that sink or swim attitude, and they like to wait for its traders to one day "find IT." NOw, if i ever want to get promoted, I just work my ass off, look good in front of my boss, make my boss look good to his boss and his clients, play some golf, and don't get involved in office gossip.
Advice for the wise, for all failed traders who have Biz degrees and just couldn't find that job, get into accounting, they're an easy hire and once you get a CA you are pretty much set, making much more than any SWIFT trader ever would, plus working on Bay Street is pretty plush indeed.
The other problem that frustrated me with trading was how "working hard" never got you anywhere. Swift has that sink or swim attitude, and they like to wait for its traders to one day "find IT." NOw, if i ever want to get promoted, I just work my ass off, look good in front of my boss, make my boss look good to his boss and his clients, play some golf, and don't get involved in office gossip.
Advice for the wise, for all failed traders who have Biz degrees and just couldn't find that job, get into accounting, they're an easy hire and once you get a CA you are pretty much set, making much more than any SWIFT trader ever would, plus working on Bay Street is pretty plush indeed.
first off things are changing. swift ups the base payout once i reach 120k net total, 5% more when i reach 400k and once i reach 1mil i get another 5%... so that means I'll eventually be getting base 50% scaling up to 65% on everything monthly over 30k. so your 46% figure while it may be historically accurate is no longer true. so I'm not lying to myself. (i also happen to have many other reasons for staying at swift, some are personal. for me, it's not all about getting a couple extra hundred or thousand a month.)
so how does one qualify to be a trader anyways? i take many different trades for many different reasons. is it the holding time for a trade, the # of shares, the number of trades made in a day? Must i be a short term investor to qualify as a a trader to you? please enlighten me.
i guess that's all i have to say for now.
i hope 'trading' treats you well next week. (however you happen to "trade")
mnx
agianst my better judgement I am going to respond to what you said... I'm going to be as objective as possible to avoid flames...
I'm sure everything you have said is true. If I had the same experience as you at swift I would have left a long time ago also. About branches teaching you nothing, I think it is the same everywhere. It is totally up to the individual to learn the markets. So teaching you 'nothing' is common to every branch. And while we're talking about training, AFAIK no other prop firm will treach you much... Genesis, Golden and many others won't teach you anything. They are looking for experienced traders. No one is going to sit you down and say volia: this is how you make money.
I think it'k in janaruy '04. order types, execution, different marketplaces, credits really sad that certain branches won't let you try anything new. I've always been curious about everything since I started at swift bacs, arbing etc... I would agree branches that won't let their traders experiment are doomed to fail. But I suppose a 'trader' has to proove themselves somewhat before any manager would let them experiement. They would at least have to be working hard and studious. I certainly wouldn't let a trainee 'experiment' who spent all their spare time playing video games. (that was not a slam directed at you but a general observation.) As far as developing strategies and trying new things out, I'm doing it all the time. and I was given the freedom to experiment while I was still making squat.
I've seen that you have been looking at other firms. Please feel free to post on ET about your experience there when you start. I'm sure everyone on ET would like to hear and unbiased view of every firm out there from the inside.
good luck in your future endeavours. hopefully you'll stick with trading, 'cause getting a real job in the real world sucks.' =D
mnx
I'm sure everything you have said is true. If I had the same experience as you at swift I would have left a long time ago also. About branches teaching you nothing, I think it is the same everywhere. It is totally up to the individual to learn the markets. So teaching you 'nothing' is common to every branch. And while we're talking about training, AFAIK no other prop firm will treach you much... Genesis, Golden and many others won't teach you anything. They are looking for experienced traders. No one is going to sit you down and say volia: this is how you make money.
I think it'k in janaruy '04. order types, execution, different marketplaces, credits really sad that certain branches won't let you try anything new. I've always been curious about everything since I started at swift bacs, arbing etc... I would agree branches that won't let their traders experiment are doomed to fail. But I suppose a 'trader' has to proove themselves somewhat before any manager would let them experiement. They would at least have to be working hard and studious. I certainly wouldn't let a trainee 'experiment' who spent all their spare time playing video games. (that was not a slam directed at you but a general observation.) As far as developing strategies and trying new things out, I'm doing it all the time. and I was given the freedom to experiment while I was still making squat.
I've seen that you have been looking at other firms. Please feel free to post on ET about your experience there when you start. I'm sure everyone on ET would like to hear and unbiased view of every firm out there from the inside.
good luck in your future endeavours. hopefully you'll stick with trading, 'cause getting a real job in the real world sucks.' =D
mnx
I think it's awesome that you found a job that you really enjoy. As for me, I really enjoy trading. I took a job for 6 weeks in the middle of last year, and you know what? I ran back to trading. I missed it and had to give it another shot. I totally agree with you too about people coming in with unrealestic expectations. Nobody should come into trading with expectations of making big $$'s. And yeah trading 500 share lots for pennies with a 50/50 ratio is totally pointless. But that's certainly not what I'm doing, and definitely not what others around me making good money are doing. We're certainly not trading 500 lots, that's for certain. And out hit miss ratio is a little better than 50/50. 
that's what you call an 'edge'.
Now getting on to the part about trading that frustrated you. I have to respectfully disagree on this one. "Working hard" while it doesn't guarentee anything, can really pay off. I know that when I came back to trading last september I really worked my butt off. And you know what? It actually paid off. If you treat trading like a job and work your butt off and refuse to accept mediocre results then you have a chance of getting somewhere with trading especially in the long term. If you're like the average swift trader and are a lazy ass and play video games all day and go home and do nothing then your days will be numbered. (that wasn't directed at you BTW. I'm sure you did work hard at swift and never saw any results. that would be immensely frustrating!!!!! like I said there is no guarentee of hard work paying off, but without it your trading career will be short.
enjoy the rest of your weekend. I wish Monday wasn't a holiday... (none of my friends have it off) like the INET t-shirt says, "I'd rather be trading."
mnx
that's what you call an 'edge'.Now getting on to the part about trading that frustrated you. I have to respectfully disagree on this one. "Working hard" while it doesn't guarentee anything, can really pay off. I know that when I came back to trading last september I really worked my butt off. And you know what? It actually paid off. If you treat trading like a job and work your butt off and refuse to accept mediocre results then you have a chance of getting somewhere with trading especially in the long term. If you're like the average swift trader and are a lazy ass and play video games all day and go home and do nothing then your days will be numbered. (that wasn't directed at you BTW. I'm sure you did work hard at swift and never saw any results. that would be immensely frustrating!!!!! like I said there is no guarentee of hard work paying off, but without it your trading career will be short.
enjoy the rest of your weekend. I wish Monday wasn't a holiday... (none of my friends have it off) like the INET t-shirt says, "I'd rather be trading."
mnx