Sweden

1. Completely different issue, but thanks for the strawman. I am also not a right winger.
2. The Swedish didn't choose their path for herd immunity. Nice attack on a never made argument.
2. And they are also mostly old.

Old people die because their immune system is weakened. Old people deserve the same protection as others, but their deaths is WAY less tragic than children's. The Swedish acknowledged they didn't protect them sufficiently, neither did other countries with lock downs. 4-5 US states' numbers are similar to Sweden's and they did lock down.

Care to try again?

Which education did you take? You seem to be an expert in everything that is posted on ET. Or at least you think you are.
 
Yeah, when I was station in Seoul, Korea in a special unit and we only wore mask on some days....I was never sick.

Also, when off base and then living there after I left the military...I always wore a mask but mainly because my girlfriend always wore a mask. Never sick.

Upon arrival back in France and the U.S...I begin to have annual flare ups of a weaken immune system that would last about a month in the fall which I would catch a cold, flu or strep throat.

I then saw a specialist around age 30...she stated the problem was my tonsils. Got a 2nd opinion...same diagnosis in which they recommended I have my tonsils remove.

I then had my tonsils removed and didn't have anymore immune system problems. Moved my family to Québec, Canada. No problems until many years later when ex military friends from U.S. and South Korea visited me at my other home in South France (we get together every year for some hard-core back woods camping/hiking).

We went Pheasant Hunting. They wore masks and I did not. They then left and I went back to trading for a few days and cleaning up the property before travelling back to Québec, Canada.

Wasn't feeling too good after that. Decided to go to the hospital for a checkup...while checking in and giving the check-in clerk my health card...

I collapsed in the hospital lobby from sudden drop in my blood pressure. Woke up about 2 months later from a coma / life support. They said I tested positive for the Pneumonia but it was a strain they never saw before and wanted to know where I had been travelling.

Although it was very confusing for me mainly do to the fact that many family members and close friends surrounding me were speaking different languages...

My first thought was that I had been in a car accident considering I couldn't move my legs (too weak) and then I thought I had been poisoned.

The hospital was very concerned about my travelling and my family had to give them a detail itinerary of my recent travels and whom had been with me. My friends on vacation had been contacted...they were in perfect health...no illness nor anyone in their family household.

How I got the Pneumonia remains a mystery to the doctors, health officials and myself considering no friends, no family members from everyone in contact with me had not become ill. I then just became another pneumonia statistic.

After that experience, I've gone back to wearing medical masks whenever in public in large gatherings, hospital medical appointments and travelling thru airports when travelling back n forth between my homes.

Now we're in a Pandemic...it doesn't seem like a big deal for me but everyone around me now have a deeper understanding about what I experienced in the hospitals back in the fall of 2016 (pneumonia, coma, life support, C. Difficile, quarantine, rehab).

Seriously, my family and close friends have vivid memory of me on life support back in the the fall of 2016. They went into their own family lockdown 2 weeks before the U.S., France and Canada went into a lockdown...we had just came back from a small family reunion / vacation in South Dakota and Chicago.

The funny thing is this...I tease my two buddies from South Korea that the Pandemic was their fault because I do wonder sometimes if wearing masks in Asia...doesn't allow one's immune system to defend itself because the system doesn't develop natural anti-bodies.

Teasing them that they're the weak links in our military group of ex soldiers / best friends.

There's been research about such in Asia and the research shows no evidence that mask wearing has long term nor short term negative effects such as a weaken immune system.

We're all now (military pals from U.S. and South Korea) planning another big winter vacation for some extreme winter camping/hiking and hunting (U.S. Olympic Peninsula)...just to flex our survival skills.

Pandemics have more impact beyond the health system...it exposes other weaknesses in society. You then need to getaway from society to reset the mind, body and soul.

wrbtrader

Thank you for sharing. Details like this based on personal experiences clarifies and enriches these abstract analyses that we all end up doing.
 
Which education did you take? You seem to be an expert in everything that is posted on ET. Or at least you think you are.

Trump University, summa cum laude. Your inability to make a valid argument is not my fault.

But I appreciate the personal jab and you following me around ET.
 
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Even if you exclude 80+ year olds (who also matter, in my view), Sweden had 4X fatalities as Norway + Finland.

I didn't disagree. The disagreement is rather a moral one, not a scientific: Was it worthy or not?

Right now it is too early to tell. We are still in the beginning of this spread. If other countries eventually catch up with their death numbers to Sweden, then they only bought time, but didn't discover a final solution (sorry for the phrase.)

And relative 4-5K deaths is not such a huge number for a decent sized country. A sinking ship could easily kill that many people.
 
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I will quote people from reddit about the moral issues. Looks like Virtusa is ignoring me, good for her!

"Yes, it's sad that many people are losing their beloved parents and grandparents due to the virus, but death is inevitable. We waste enormous amounts of resources prolonging the last 1-5 years of life, even when quality of life is minimal. Our culture is terrified of mortality and we seem to avoid thinking about it at all costs. The best thing we can do to prepare for our old age is to face the fact that we will eventually die. The sooner we acknowledge where we're all going, the easier it will be when we get there."

"On the other hand, there does seem to be a sentiment of "fuck old people" on Reddit, and I completely agree with it. The last 3 generations burned through 200 million years of sequestered carbon so they could go motor-boating at their lake house, cruises to Mexico, and converting every last inch of flat land into cornfields or condominiums. They consistently voted in politicians who pandered to their xenophobic and narcissistic tendencies, while strip-mining the middle class and systematically dismantling the mechanisms of democracy. Are there good old people? Of course. Are there greedy, sociopathic millenials? Certainly. But these people had every possible economic advantage, which they continue to use to siphon away their children's wealth through rent, wage stagnation, and refusal to improve the healthcare system. If they're lonely at the top of the wall, after pulling up the ladder, well that's just too fucking bad."

"Johan Giesecke, former state epidemiologist of Sweden, and a professor emeritus at the Karolinska Institute, tells me criticisms of Sweden’s current rates of infection and death are premature. “Wait one year before you start counting deaths in different countries,” he says. “The countries that are opening up now will get their deaths with time.”

Dude does have a point. It's premature to compare death rates and then say which country is handling it better. Countries won't be locked down for another year, and there likely won't be a vaccine or treatment by then. So we are, in large part, just delaying the inevitable."
 
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Just because I like data, I counted 12 US States and 7 European countries with similar death numbers like Sweden's. Yet somehow Sweden is the bad guy...
 
Just because I like data, I counted 12 US States and 7 European countries with similar death numbers like Sweden's. Yet somehow Sweden is the bad guy...

In science, if you look only at the data and not the data within the context...the data then becomes easily misinterpreted and / or manipulated.

You can easily find data to support your arguments just like someone else can find a different type of data to support their argument.

These tactics are typically used by those that do not reside in the country while those that reside within the country tend to look at the data more within the context.

Just wait to the end of the year (that's like December 31st 2020) to have these debates about data analysis.

wrbtrader
 
In science, if you look only at the data and not the data within the context...

OK first you wanted data. When I provided you want data in context, whatever that is in this case. next time you want data that backs you up.

Instead of generic "data in context" BS, why don't you criticize it with a case in point? And in the main time, let's leave Sweden alone.
 
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OK first you wanted data. When I provided you want data in context, whatever that is in this case. next time you want data that backs you up.

Instead of generic "data in context" BS, why don't you criticize it with a case in point? And in the main time, let's leave Sweden alone.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I had asked you for data and I surely don't remember asking you for data in context.

I myself, I like to post links to data and then talk about the context involving the data because there's usually contrary data floating around out there without the context. Yet, if I do not post links to data and then just do a copy / paste of the info...I most likely surely posted the link elsewhere here at ET for the same data.

Regardless, I stand by my prior message about Sweden in this thread many messages ago...those debating about Sweden most likely do not live in Sweden. :D

Anyways, Sweden is a nice place far away from me with pretty women in travel destination magazines. Hope things work out for them by end of year when all the dust begins to settle...same for all the other countries that are connected to the economy of Sweden.

By the way, I've already posted about Sweden with data within context...case in point. You obviously missed the messages...a few in this thread and several in other thread including asking several people if they were from Sweden or living in Sweden...questions not answered. :rolleyes:

wrbtrader
 
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