You don't WORK at a company (for the company), you just are there and collect money.
You will never get a chance to "get rich" on my back.
Supporting yourself while trading pre-profit?
- Thread starter malaka56
- Start date
You don't WORK at a company (for the company), you just are there and collect money.
You will never get a chance to "get rich" on my back.
When money is involved and people want you to trust them, it means that they cannot abuse the situation enough to take the advantages they would like to take.
Never trust people who want to be trusted.
I don't understand why i would need a better job. I never said anything about my job.
If your logic is so twisted, I wonder how well you do in trading or in life for that matter.
One way around this is to get a personal laptop with Verizon broadband wireless internet.
long post, maybe too long, but the topic hits home:
im winding down my business. i can do much of the work in the evenings and weekends. a few years ago, i tried working FT (60-80 hrs a week) and tradings FT and i just got totally burnt out - there is a post here somewhere with deatils. im building up passive/investment income, but i still have 2 children to put through college so i keep the biz as a safety net. ive been taking very few trades in the past few weeks, but ive been tinkering with a gap strategy and realxing at the beach. a few years back, i started working 9 months a year and taking less work, which has worked out well, my trading results are "good". i can make $100K working PT, but the weakening r.e. market is gonna change that. so ill adjust. there is a local guy that pays $80/hr for court work research for litigation, so ive considered that, as it would essentially be "net" to me. my buddy works for him M-W and takes the other 4 days off to rebuild classic cars.
realize, when i work 9 months, i dont make 75% of my usually annual billings - thats a bummer.... i make less, but im more patient trading and more relaxed vs. say trading 1 day a week, where i HAVE TO TRADE on wednesdays! i lose touch with some clients, although i tell them when im taking off for 3 months. i had planned to work only 6 months this year, but the Socal r.e. market has slowed, that i may end up working PT all year. lower yields have made increasing passive income more difficult, however, even though i keep expenses low, less income really starts to squeeze the biz bottom line. im really driven and compulsive, so working and then taking off works better for me vs., trying to moderate trading or work.
i agree with the guy that said $880k-$1M in tax-free munis, or say ST treasuries, thats a base $40k to $60k to live off of while trading. i have an ample asset base, but i would like to get to $100k/year in income, which means i need slightly higher yields - ive been moving stuff around, but it takes time and sales costs and taxes suck. i have NO DEBT and very few monthly bills. at 50, i think about NEVER billing a client again and i wanna be sure i dont close the biz too early, so im building up a margin of safety. as the real estate market slows and fees go lower and work less steady, i may have to alter my plans. i can tell you, that ive worked my ass of over the past 25 years to get comfortable and i dont wanna give in to a mid-life urge to "f**k it" and trade. i basically done with work, but im gonna keep it going on the side as a safety net. i have a medical concern that could complicate things, so the trade-off, for now, is the way its gonna be. i can always work on a fee-split part of the year, but i fear it would be hard not being the boss after all these years. tuition for good colleges can run $50k/year, so 2 children = appx $500k with housing and stuff.
in "cashing in on the american dream, how to retire at 35" by Terhorst" he says "you can quit and always go back, but realize that when you go back, you will not make what you did when you quit." i agree with that, so i trudge a little farther down the work road.
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im winding down my business. i can do much of the work in the evenings and weekends. a few years ago, i tried working FT (60-80 hrs a week) and tradings FT and i just got totally burnt out - there is a post here somewhere with deatils. im building up passive/investment income, but i still have 2 children to put through college so i keep the biz as a safety net. ive been taking very few trades in the past few weeks, but ive been tinkering with a gap strategy and realxing at the beach. a few years back, i started working 9 months a year and taking less work, which has worked out well, my trading results are "good". i can make $100K working PT, but the weakening r.e. market is gonna change that. so ill adjust. there is a local guy that pays $80/hr for court work research for litigation, so ive considered that, as it would essentially be "net" to me. my buddy works for him M-W and takes the other 4 days off to rebuild classic cars.
realize, when i work 9 months, i dont make 75% of my usually annual billings - thats a bummer.... i make less, but im more patient trading and more relaxed vs. say trading 1 day a week, where i HAVE TO TRADE on wednesdays! i lose touch with some clients, although i tell them when im taking off for 3 months. i had planned to work only 6 months this year, but the Socal r.e. market has slowed, that i may end up working PT all year. lower yields have made increasing passive income more difficult, however, even though i keep expenses low, less income really starts to squeeze the biz bottom line. im really driven and compulsive, so working and then taking off works better for me vs., trying to moderate trading or work.
i agree with the guy that said $880k-$1M in tax-free munis, or say ST treasuries, thats a base $40k to $60k to live off of while trading. i have an ample asset base, but i would like to get to $100k/year in income, which means i need slightly higher yields - ive been moving stuff around, but it takes time and sales costs and taxes suck. i have NO DEBT and very few monthly bills. at 50, i think about NEVER billing a client again and i wanna be sure i dont close the biz too early, so im building up a margin of safety. as the real estate market slows and fees go lower and work less steady, i may have to alter my plans. i can tell you, that ive worked my ass of over the past 25 years to get comfortable and i dont wanna give in to a mid-life urge to "f**k it" and trade. i basically done with work, but im gonna keep it going on the side as a safety net. i have a medical concern that could complicate things, so the trade-off, for now, is the way its gonna be. i can always work on a fee-split part of the year, but i fear it would be hard not being the boss after all these years. tuition for good colleges can run $50k/year, so 2 children = appx $500k with housing and stuff.
in "cashing in on the american dream, how to retire at 35" by Terhorst" he says "you can quit and always go back, but realize that when you go back, you will not make what you did when you quit." i agree with that, so i trudge a little farther down the work road.
.O.P. the answer is really quite obvious and nobody here has even touched on it, interesting indeed.
If you even have to ask this question you probably aren't in the position you need to be in or you think you're gonna be in when you start trading. HUH?
What I have found about trading is that it isn't always the trading style or your success rate that will make or break you, but what position are you in before starting to trade professionally. That's what you are REALLY going to do, trade professionally. If you find yourself laughing or smirking at that, then you have answered your own question and can stop right now for you aren't really serious. You are going to make trading YOUR NEW BUSINESS, right? Well approach it as a business. You obviously already have that experience so you must know what it takes. LOTS OF SACRIFICE while experiencing the learning curve. To the guys that say they wouldn't start until they have at least 800k and 1 M in munis, what the hell you NEED to trade for if you have that much? I got a kick out of that one. There is a difference between trading effectively as a hobby/sideline and as a business. There's nothing wrong with being successful in your interests, but realize that's different than being successful in business.
Not intended as any personal attack to anyone, but the cardinal rule I live by first; TO THINE OWN SELF BE TRUE. Reality isn't perception although our perceptions can influence our realities.
Now, snatch the pebbles from my hand young grasshopper (just jesting of course).
Lastly, if you are grappling with this question, you probably aren't ready but maybe not as far off as you think. Much of being successful in trading has more to do with your life outside the markets than within them. Most Americans are in too much debt and live paycheck to paycheck. Sounds like many here are in that boat. If you can get yourself out of that situation, then you will be in a position to trade full time. Remember the markets aren't there to feed us. Feeding yourself on a daily basis comes from being good at the business enterprise of trading. Big difference!
If you even have to ask this question you probably aren't in the position you need to be in or you think you're gonna be in when you start trading. HUH?
What I have found about trading is that it isn't always the trading style or your success rate that will make or break you, but what position are you in before starting to trade professionally. That's what you are REALLY going to do, trade professionally. If you find yourself laughing or smirking at that, then you have answered your own question and can stop right now for you aren't really serious. You are going to make trading YOUR NEW BUSINESS, right? Well approach it as a business. You obviously already have that experience so you must know what it takes. LOTS OF SACRIFICE while experiencing the learning curve. To the guys that say they wouldn't start until they have at least 800k and 1 M in munis, what the hell you NEED to trade for if you have that much? I got a kick out of that one. There is a difference between trading effectively as a hobby/sideline and as a business. There's nothing wrong with being successful in your interests, but realize that's different than being successful in business.
Not intended as any personal attack to anyone, but the cardinal rule I live by first; TO THINE OWN SELF BE TRUE. Reality isn't perception although our perceptions can influence our realities.
Now, snatch the pebbles from my hand young grasshopper (just jesting of course).
Lastly, if you are grappling with this question, you probably aren't ready but maybe not as far off as you think. Much of being successful in trading has more to do with your life outside the markets than within them. Most Americans are in too much debt and live paycheck to paycheck. Sounds like many here are in that boat. If you can get yourself out of that situation, then you will be in a position to trade full time. Remember the markets aren't there to feed us. Feeding yourself on a daily basis comes from being good at the business enterprise of trading. Big difference!
If I had 800k - 1M liquid, why in holy hell would I want to trade for???
Put the entire amount in short term treasuries (no state-income tax either) that easily put out 5% now (and still to go higher!), and live off the $50k+ interest generated.
Whatever funds I still have but dont need I would keep buying physical gold/silver.
Easiest retirement you'll ever hear of.
Put the entire amount in short term treasuries (no state-income tax either) that easily put out 5% now (and still to go higher!), and live off the $50k+ interest generated.
Whatever funds I still have but dont need I would keep buying physical gold/silver.
Easiest retirement you'll ever hear of.
Hmm, the mindset of people who made $1M
are not the same as the people who never made $1M
money is never enough, more is required.
You don't make $1M living a lifesytle of a college bum,
You made $1M by taking things to the extreme and careful money management.
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Malaka,
Advice to you,
Grass is not greener on the other side,
Takes at least 3-5 years, or 2 years if you are extremely talented to make it in trading.
You quiting your business (good casfhlow) is cutting your nose in spite of an ugly face, because the next 3-5 years you will be absolutely incomeless in the negative-.
I alternate a lot in between , mainly because I figured.
1. Trading (swing) is inconsistent but extremely good income when the opportunity arrives.
I wait around 10-12 trading days for one opportunity these days.
2. Business is like the metronome, steady as hell, Every month makes more money, every month $$$ comes in.
3. Other people mentioned capital, that is true, make sure you have at least $100k+ in cash mininum for SWING trading.
4. Another important thing is to learn how to daytrade, because you will learn a lot faster then swing trading.
If you can daytrade you can swing (not scalping, 3-6 hour holds)
Unless you become a superstar scalper who can consistenly make money every single day, your career in trading will be extremely painful and result in wasted years in your life , if not done the slow and steady way.
So as an example, your saying that once you earn approximately 50K after tax, your going to sit on the counch and watch the boob tube all day?
We are all built differently. The 800k-1M in munis is a "stepping stone" goal for me. It says to me that my trading or buisness, etc. is lucrative enough for me to focus all of my energy on that business. Also to step up my game/plan to the next level.
I respect those guys who lay it all on the line to change careers and completely jump into the fire of trading. But, it's just not my style. The way I figure it, if I'm good enough to only trade for a living, then for me to put aside 800k-1M should be very doable. (That's my definition of being "good" at trading. It's different for everyone.)
For me, I hate to "have to" do anything. I don't want to switch from a "have to" career as an Engineer to another "have to" career as a trader. For me, trading during the day and working nights will allow me to reach my initial goal of 800k - 1M a lot faster than doing just one or the other. Again for me, my perspective changes when I don't "have to" do anything.
Also, I could never just stop at 50k/year tax free money. To me that's just small potatos. I think our different perspectives come down to wealth building vs. job oriented thinking ($/yr).