Superstition, Luck and Vodoo
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after reading many of dark's endless verbosity i sincerely believe that his position originates from fear, not reason. put simply, 'dark' is afraid of the dark so his mind is working overtime to quell those fears. what better way than to convince onself that a grand life awaits after death. i wish it were true i really do (who wouldn't) but...... :-/
LOL puhleeze. Just consider our respective argument to insult ratios. I respond by laying out my position in a structurally sound manner time and time again, responding to all inquiries as fully as I can; you respond by calling me moron and idiot and baptist preacher (I'm not baptist by the way). What do I have to be afraid of? I lead a fulfilling and wonderful life. I am at peace here and now. If I'm right in the long run, which I am, I win. If I'm wrong, which I'm not, then I still win.
You, on the other hand, have every reason to be afraid. Being egotistical and self centered, you cling to the illusion of autonomy. You desperately feel the need to have some sort of control over your life. For me to lay out clearly and plainly that you have none- that you are an infinitesimal speck who decides nothing- is terrifying for you, not me.
Now I have a question for you agent smith:
If the basic assumption of atheism is correct, then life has no true meaning or purpose other than the stuff we make up in our own heads. If life has no purpose other than the false constructs we concoct to make life enjoyable or at least tolerable, then why do you care whether I am right or wrong?
If the essence of existence is finite, then eventually nothing will matter at all. So why should it matter to you now?
The thing that amuses me about atheists is that you act inconsistently with your beliefs every minute of every day. Your conclusions say that emotion is only a chemical process, yet you give and receive love as if it had meaning. Your conclusions say that morality is illusion, yet you persist in acting as if good is good and bad is bad. You say there is no ultimate meaning and no absolute truth, yet you persist in defending your version of meaning and your interpretation of absolute truth.
In short, your words and your actions are about as inconsistent as possible.
Everything you say matches nothing that you do.
Your sanity depends on balancing, justifying, or flat out ignoring the massive contradictions between what you say reality is and what all of life says reality is. Flat earthers and random walkers have nothing on you guys.
I am all about integration. Matching the thought with the process, the conceptual with the actual, the flavor with the taste. My view of reality is enforced every day. I understand the missing link in man's search for purpose because that missing link is God. I am happy, truly happy. I'm not talking about the 'life is good/money in the bank' happiness either. I am talking about a bone deep, soul deep understanding that illustrates on a firsthand level why I am here and what I am meant to do. No one and nothing can take away my joy, my understanding. I might be a billionaire one day. I might be a pauper one day. I might have ten kids. I might have none. Doesn't matter, because I'm connected to what's permanent, eternal, real. My reality clicks. It hums. It resonates with the power of Beethoven's ninth symphony. I don't have to fight against my beliefs every time I experience love or embrace beauty or bask in meaning or fight for truth or ponder why I draw breath.
You can say that I believe in God because my 360 degree belief structure gives me a more profound sense of joy and peace and confidence than 99% of individuals ever get to experience. You can say that my perception of reality is like a drug I am addicted to, a mind-enhancing, heart-enhancing substance that makes life better by a factor of ten with no side effects and no comedown. In otherwords, you can say that my beliefs are only a support structure for my positive experience.
But I can come right back and say that my intensely uplifting experience is clear evidence that I have gotten it right. Not to mention that I have met God personally.
Science, mathematics, economics, philosophy, rationality, ethics, beauty, thought: I do not fight against them, I embrace them, because they confirm my reality. I no longer shiver in my bed at night and wonder at the madness of it all. Why? Because the only true madness is in rejecting God. I have walked the last mile. Don't you get it yet? I am getting stronger every day. The more I understand, the more is revealed. The more I see, the more I transcend.
God has revealed himself to me, and for that I will be eternally grateful, literally. I have found a peaceful, powerful, joyful and fully unified existence, for today, tomorrow and all time. This would not be possible if God were not real. He is.
But Faster, what I really have to ask is, why do you care where my path leads. You are an atheist. You have no meaning. You have no purpose. By your own words, you admit that morality is a false construct, that good and evil are not real. By your own words and admission, you come from nowhere and you are going nowhere. There are no right or wrong answers if there are no valid questions. With that in mind, why oh why are you so interested in my path?
LOL puhleeze. Just consider our respective argument to insult ratios. I respond by laying out my position in a structurally sound manner time and time again, responding to all inquiries as fully as I can; you respond by calling me moron and idiot and baptist preacher (I'm not baptist by the way). What do I have to be afraid of? I lead a fulfilling and wonderful life. I am at peace here and now. If I'm right in the long run, which I am, I win. If I'm wrong, which I'm not, then I still win.
You, on the other hand, have every reason to be afraid. Being egotistical and self centered, you cling to the illusion of autonomy. You desperately feel the need to have some sort of control over your life. For me to lay out clearly and plainly that you have none- that you are an infinitesimal speck who decides nothing- is terrifying for you, not me.
Now I have a question for you agent smith:
If the basic assumption of atheism is correct, then life has no true meaning or purpose other than the stuff we make up in our own heads. If life has no purpose other than the false constructs we concoct to make life enjoyable or at least tolerable, then why do you care whether I am right or wrong?
If the essence of existence is finite, then eventually nothing will matter at all. So why should it matter to you now?
The thing that amuses me about atheists is that you act inconsistently with your beliefs every minute of every day. Your conclusions say that emotion is only a chemical process, yet you give and receive love as if it had meaning. Your conclusions say that morality is illusion, yet you persist in acting as if good is good and bad is bad. You say there is no ultimate meaning and no absolute truth, yet you persist in defending your version of meaning and your interpretation of absolute truth.
In short, your words and your actions are about as inconsistent as possible.
Everything you say matches nothing that you do.
Your sanity depends on balancing, justifying, or flat out ignoring the massive contradictions between what you say reality is and what all of life says reality is. Flat earthers and random walkers have nothing on you guys.
I am all about integration. Matching the thought with the process, the conceptual with the actual, the flavor with the taste. My view of reality is enforced every day. I understand the missing link in man's search for purpose because that missing link is God. I am happy, truly happy. I'm not talking about the 'life is good/money in the bank' happiness either. I am talking about a bone deep, soul deep understanding that illustrates on a firsthand level why I am here and what I am meant to do. No one and nothing can take away my joy, my understanding. I might be a billionaire one day. I might be a pauper one day. I might have ten kids. I might have none. Doesn't matter, because I'm connected to what's permanent, eternal, real. My reality clicks. It hums. It resonates with the power of Beethoven's ninth symphony. I don't have to fight against my beliefs every time I experience love or embrace beauty or bask in meaning or fight for truth or ponder why I draw breath.
You can say that I believe in God because my 360 degree belief structure gives me a more profound sense of joy and peace and confidence than 99% of individuals ever get to experience. You can say that my perception of reality is like a drug I am addicted to, a mind-enhancing, heart-enhancing substance that makes life better by a factor of ten with no side effects and no comedown. In otherwords, you can say that my beliefs are only a support structure for my positive experience.
But I can come right back and say that my intensely uplifting experience is clear evidence that I have gotten it right. Not to mention that I have met God personally.
Science, mathematics, economics, philosophy, rationality, ethics, beauty, thought: I do not fight against them, I embrace them, because they confirm my reality. I no longer shiver in my bed at night and wonder at the madness of it all. Why? Because the only true madness is in rejecting God. I have walked the last mile. Don't you get it yet? I am getting stronger every day. The more I understand, the more is revealed. The more I see, the more I transcend.
God has revealed himself to me, and for that I will be eternally grateful, literally. I have found a peaceful, powerful, joyful and fully unified existence, for today, tomorrow and all time. This would not be possible if God were not real. He is.
But Faster, what I really have to ask is, why do you care where my path leads. You are an atheist. You have no meaning. You have no purpose. By your own words, you admit that morality is a false construct, that good and evil are not real. By your own words and admission, you come from nowhere and you are going nowhere. There are no right or wrong answers if there are no valid questions. With that in mind, why oh why are you so interested in my path?
for one thing, none of this stuff is new to me. i've worked out all these questions years ago. so it's not like i am straining my brain to come up with answers. i type fast also as you've probably guessed.
re trading, i'm not a daytrader and i don't even trade every day. a key component of my methodology is NOT being hyperactive. i have a lot of time to chill out, and as long as i am within earshot of the computer to hear an alarm go off, most of the day is essentially freetime.
a lot of folks go nuts with the in between time because they feel like they aren't doing real work. sitting on one's hands is work of a sort. i embrace it by doing the kind of stuff i would really rather be doing- thinking, playing chess, reading, planning, time with the wife etc.
my real work is done in the afternoon identifying setups. i could hire a grunt to implement my position management rules. no triggers, no trades. no trades, plenty of time to dash off some thoughts.
hey commisso and dark...good to see you both back.
I had a long rainy weekend (no golf) and missed you both on this board.
You both missed some incredibly inane threads and amusing threads. One was on "how long it would take chas to pass don bright in threads".
with a poll...pretty funny.
One was "traders girlfriends"...commisso, i was rolling laughing. I knew you would have thought it would be funny too. That is why I tried to PM you (but your mailbox was full)
Fasterpussycat is obviously Super_ego.
And Dark, you are still the king of verbosity no matter what anyone says. No one is going to take your title. But keep it coming anyway....you always manage to outlast and out slug the pretenders an outwit them too!
I had a long rainy weekend (no golf) and missed you both on this board.
You both missed some incredibly inane threads and amusing threads. One was on "how long it would take chas to pass don bright in threads".
with a poll...pretty funny.
One was "traders girlfriends"...commisso, i was rolling laughing. I knew you would have thought it would be funny too. That is why I tried to PM you (but your mailbox was full)
Fasterpussycat is obviously Super_ego.
And Dark, you are still the king of verbosity no matter what anyone says. No one is going to take your title. But keep it coming anyway....you always manage to outlast and out slug the pretenders an outwit them too!
Thanks for the response 
I figured it was something along those lines... I have been only working the opens, so if you would like to get a game of chess or some backgammon going PM me... After my trades are in DB I am doing the same thing as you... reading, chess, etc...
PEACE and good trading,
Commisso
I figured it was something along those lines... I have been only working the opens, so if you would like to get a game of chess or some backgammon going PM me... After my trades are in DB I am doing the same thing as you... reading, chess, etc...
PEACE and good trading,
Commisso
Just for kicks I thought I would steer this thread back in a more trading oriented direction.
I am sure a lot of folks don't care about faith and don't see what faith has to do with trading.
Quite a bit methinks.
Here's some nonrandom thoughts:
Faith: the subject of faith is not normally associated with trading, but it is actually a vital and necessary element. Not faith in any one position or market call, but in the trading method itself. Simple logic demonstrates why:
1) all good methods have drawdowns (losing streaks).
2) good methods look bad when they are losing money.
3) whether a method in drawdown should be ridden out or dumped is a judgment call.
3) the decision to commit or quit usually comes at the worst time (under significant emotional duress after a string of losses).
Thus it is necessary to have faith in one's method during drawdowns- that is, to discount the pain of losses and carry forward in spite of short term negative feedback. The only alternative to persistence is abandonment. And since all good methods have periods of loss, the habit of abandoning any method as soon as it hits a drawdown ultimately leads nowhere (endless roaming or quitting entirely) as all valid methods would end up eventually being discarded this way.
Discernment: The risk of false confidence makes the simple complex. You can't just vow to be confident because your confidence might be misplaced. A lot of traders have false confidence that is actually hope in disguise or simply irrational optimism. Traders may persist in applying a bad method far beyond its reasonable expiration date, because they want the method to work so badly that they are unwilling to give up in the face of mounting evidence. Quitting too soon is bad, but persisting too long is also bad. The strength to persevere is a virtue, but the flexibility to change is also a virtue. Thus the cliches break down and there is no easy answer. This is exactly why general trading advice is useless. Anyone can spout off the logical extremes, but finding the balance amidst the outliers is the hard path we must walk, and no guru can teach that. Finding the tightrope is one thing, walking it is another. Just as good methods and bad methods have a similar appearance in drawdowns, rational confidence and irrational optimism have similarity on the surface level also. That's why ya gotta swim deep.
Knowledge: strong faith must rest on a foundation of knowledge, be it logical, intuitive, experiential or ideally all three. Without this triple foundation faith is not truly strong- it may appear so but will crack under duress. From a trading perspective it is not necessary to have deep knowledge when the method is working, BUT when the method is NOT working knowledge is vital, because knowledge lays the groundwork for the rational faith that allows the trader to carry on- or provides the impetus and spur for him to change. Real trust is only required in periods of doubt or adversity (in the trader's case, during drawdowns), and we must be in tune with reality to know which way the wind is blowing. THIS is why deep knowledge of market mechanics is such a key element- if the trader does not have intimate knowledge of his methods and why they are theoretically sound, he will have a lower faith/conviction threshold and thus be more prone to giving up at the wrong time or alternatively missing a clear impetus to change.
Results: The ultimate justification for faith of any kind is concrete results. For example I put faith in my desk chair every day, and it hasn't let me down yet. Just as putting faith in a life philosophy or world view should be rewarded with consistently deeper understanding and affirmation over time, putting faith in a trading method should ultimately be rewarded with profit in the pocket in reasonable due course of time. Sitting through six losses in a row is one thing, for example; sitting through thirty losses in a row is quite another.
Different methods will have different time frames of proving ground. Some ideas can be validated in days, others requiring weeks or months. (If you are in real estate or environmental science it could be years or decades.) But the beauty is that at no point are we existing in a vacuum. This is where the efficacy of knowledge comes back in. With sufficient knowledge, it's possible to discern between positive and negative feedback and thus to have a handle on what's going on. If there is trouble with the method, that trouble should be traceable to a source. If that source of trouble crumples up your theory or otherwise contradicts a key component of your method, you have a problem. If you cannot locate the source of trouble no matter how hard you look, you are partially blind and have a problem. BUT if you can trace the cause of your drawdown/pain to the source and determine that the source is likely not in conflict with your general thesis, then you can move forward.
Sometimes the contradiction is real and permanent (western view). Sometimes it is temporary or just in your head (eastern view). But regardless of where WE are in the big picture, we have to have faith (that word again) that reality is consistent at all times, it is just our job to get in sync with it. And this has genuine, in your face bare knuckles impact on trading and profit and loss.
I am sure a lot of folks don't care about faith and don't see what faith has to do with trading.
Quite a bit methinks.
Here's some nonrandom thoughts:
Faith: the subject of faith is not normally associated with trading, but it is actually a vital and necessary element. Not faith in any one position or market call, but in the trading method itself. Simple logic demonstrates why:
1) all good methods have drawdowns (losing streaks).
2) good methods look bad when they are losing money.
3) whether a method in drawdown should be ridden out or dumped is a judgment call.
3) the decision to commit or quit usually comes at the worst time (under significant emotional duress after a string of losses).
Thus it is necessary to have faith in one's method during drawdowns- that is, to discount the pain of losses and carry forward in spite of short term negative feedback. The only alternative to persistence is abandonment. And since all good methods have periods of loss, the habit of abandoning any method as soon as it hits a drawdown ultimately leads nowhere (endless roaming or quitting entirely) as all valid methods would end up eventually being discarded this way.
Discernment: The risk of false confidence makes the simple complex. You can't just vow to be confident because your confidence might be misplaced. A lot of traders have false confidence that is actually hope in disguise or simply irrational optimism. Traders may persist in applying a bad method far beyond its reasonable expiration date, because they want the method to work so badly that they are unwilling to give up in the face of mounting evidence. Quitting too soon is bad, but persisting too long is also bad. The strength to persevere is a virtue, but the flexibility to change is also a virtue. Thus the cliches break down and there is no easy answer. This is exactly why general trading advice is useless. Anyone can spout off the logical extremes, but finding the balance amidst the outliers is the hard path we must walk, and no guru can teach that. Finding the tightrope is one thing, walking it is another. Just as good methods and bad methods have a similar appearance in drawdowns, rational confidence and irrational optimism have similarity on the surface level also. That's why ya gotta swim deep.
Knowledge: strong faith must rest on a foundation of knowledge, be it logical, intuitive, experiential or ideally all three. Without this triple foundation faith is not truly strong- it may appear so but will crack under duress. From a trading perspective it is not necessary to have deep knowledge when the method is working, BUT when the method is NOT working knowledge is vital, because knowledge lays the groundwork for the rational faith that allows the trader to carry on- or provides the impetus and spur for him to change. Real trust is only required in periods of doubt or adversity (in the trader's case, during drawdowns), and we must be in tune with reality to know which way the wind is blowing. THIS is why deep knowledge of market mechanics is such a key element- if the trader does not have intimate knowledge of his methods and why they are theoretically sound, he will have a lower faith/conviction threshold and thus be more prone to giving up at the wrong time or alternatively missing a clear impetus to change.
Results: The ultimate justification for faith of any kind is concrete results. For example I put faith in my desk chair every day, and it hasn't let me down yet. Just as putting faith in a life philosophy or world view should be rewarded with consistently deeper understanding and affirmation over time, putting faith in a trading method should ultimately be rewarded with profit in the pocket in reasonable due course of time. Sitting through six losses in a row is one thing, for example; sitting through thirty losses in a row is quite another.
Different methods will have different time frames of proving ground. Some ideas can be validated in days, others requiring weeks or months. (If you are in real estate or environmental science it could be years or decades.) But the beauty is that at no point are we existing in a vacuum. This is where the efficacy of knowledge comes back in. With sufficient knowledge, it's possible to discern between positive and negative feedback and thus to have a handle on what's going on. If there is trouble with the method, that trouble should be traceable to a source. If that source of trouble crumples up your theory or otherwise contradicts a key component of your method, you have a problem. If you cannot locate the source of trouble no matter how hard you look, you are partially blind and have a problem. BUT if you can trace the cause of your drawdown/pain to the source and determine that the source is likely not in conflict with your general thesis, then you can move forward.
Sometimes the contradiction is real and permanent (western view). Sometimes it is temporary or just in your head (eastern view). But regardless of where WE are in the big picture, we have to have faith (that word again) that reality is consistent at all times, it is just our job to get in sync with it. And this has genuine, in your face bare knuckles impact on trading and profit and loss.
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