Superstition, Luck and Vodoo

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Originally posted by Commisso
Acutally Dark I never asked you to define your conception of free will and I really can't see the signal through all the noise...

Who is the author of "evil" man or God???

You say you like Porches better than Ferrari's right? Well what if I like rape and murder better than compassion and benevolence???
Ultimately who's will was it mine or your God's???

My post was pretty straight foward and if you want to continue with the discussion can you please attempt to make your case as simplistic as possible, for I am not the brighest chap around :)


PEACE Commisso
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Commisso I thought you wanted a good answer, not a brief one. To answer an extremely broad question like "who is the author of evil," it is necessary to first answer smaller questions wrapped up within that question. I don't believe in unfounded assumption, so I was trying to lay some groundwork. But if you don't want that, no prob. If you want a short and sweet answer rather than a full one, here it is:


Man's opinion is nothing but opinion and ultimately means zero.

God's opinion is more than opinion, it is absolute law. As creator and sustainer of the universe, God's character and design is enmeshed within the fabric of reality itself.

Disagreeing with God is a tough row to hoe, the toughest row of all time. If you don't like the rules of this reality, tough. There isn't any other.

Don't come back at me and say this answer isn't enough because I tried to give detail and grounding but you waved it away.
:)
 
Originally posted by Commisso

You said earlier to Faster that man could not have virtue or morality without god... Can he be prue "evil" without your god???
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LOL

this is like asking how apple pie would taste if there were no apples

nothing can be anything without God because without God nothing exists
 
Originally posted by darkhorse



Commisso I thought you wanted a good answer, not a brief one. To answer an extremely broad question like "who is the author of evil," it is necessary to first answer smaller questions wrapped up within that question. I don't believe in unfounded assumption, so I was trying to lay some groundwork. But if you don't want that, no prob. If you want a short and sweet answer rather than a full one, here it is:


Man's opinion is nothing but opinion and ultimately means zero.

God's opinion is more than opinion, it is absolute law. As creator and sustainer of the universe, God's character and design is enmeshed within the fabric of reality itself.

Disagreeing with God is a tough row to hoe, the toughest row of all time. If you don't like the rules of this reality, tough. There isn't any other.

Don't come back at me and say this answer isn't enough because I tried to give detail and grounding but you waved it away.
:)
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Dark,

Maybe I am just slow or something but I missed the signal once again...

Look up top at the SPECIFIC question...

WHO IS THE AUTHOR OF EVIL??? MAN OR GOD???

AND IF IT IS TRUE THAT MAN CANNOT HAVE VIRTUE WITHOUT GOD WOULD IT BE SAFE TO ASSUME THAT HE CANNOT BE PURE EVIL WITHOUT YOUR GOD???

Dark these are extremely straight foward questions here...

PEACE Commisso
 
Originally posted by Commisso


Dark,

Maybe I am just slow or something but I missed the signal once again...

Look up top at the SPECIFIC question...

WHO IS THE AUTHOR OF EVIL??? MAN OR GOD???

AND IF IT IS TRUE THAT MAN CANNOT HAVE VIRTUE WITHOUT GOD WOULD IT BE SAFE TO ASSUME THAT HE CANNOT BE PURE EVIL WITHOUT YOUR GOD???

Dark these are extremely straight foward questions here...

PEACE Commisso
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"Have you stopped beating your wife" is a supposedly straightforward question also. I tried to begin answering in a way I saw fit, you didn't like it. I've had my share of back and forth and don't like to stick my hand in monkey traps.

Let's go back to the logic chain again to demonstrate why your all caps question does not work:

a) God is the creator and sustainer of reality as we know it.

b) Without God, there is no reality as we know it.

c) With no reality as we know it, there can be no questions of morality.

The only hypothetical to be considered "without God" is non existence. Nihilo.
 
First off, who the heck started this thread? Kill, kill kill the CREATOR (of this thread):)

Having said that, I am curious about MY concept of (non-theological) superstition. What causes my very religious (greek orthodox) friend along with my completely non-religious (jewish by heritage) friend and my truly athiest friend (hard to find one who's lineage is actually admittedly atheist for several generations) to all vehemently believe that which lights are off and on in the hallway outside our trading room greatly effects our results?

Why do they think of certain individuals as "jinxed"....the greek orthodox guy has gone home if he even thinks someone "jinxed" so much as touched his chair?

Why is the top trader in our office affraid to get into one particular elevator?

Why does one great trader leave if his lunch order is messed up?

Is this free will? Destiny? Is God behind this (in disquise)?

Step on a crack, break your mother's back....are we born to need beliefs beyond our own logic? Is religion a soothing "drug" or an excuse to elevate ourselves? Or is it actually coming to terms with "The Truth"?

That wonderful philosopher and lover of peace....Yasser Arafat....said that religious conflicts boil down to "my imaginary friend is better than your imaginary friend".

Do miracle count if they are documented by one's drinking buddies?

Does God like me less if I don't keep kosher? Don't go to confession? Don't walk to Mecca?

If I am a philanthropist, and an atheist, do I get to go to heaven if it exists?

If I am a murderer and a confessor do I go? Do I get absolution if I give enough to the church? Where is John Gotti now?

Finally, can we hit 100 pages on this thread? Will we ever reach any agreement here? Does it matter in the least? Is this a forum for evangelism?

Buy low sell high.

Peace and Good Trading
 
Originally posted by Gordon Gekko
i know this is in poor taste, but...
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EXTREMELY poor taste Gekko.

But I admit to laughing out loud against my will.

:)

p.s. great questions rs7, it all begins with questions...

p.p.s. this has been the funnest (most fun?) debate i've had since college days...
 
thanks for the response. no i have not read that text, but plan to. thank you for the suggestion.

for some reason most christians dont like to admit it, but god had to have created evil and evil could not exist without god. it would be inconsistent in our minds to think otherwise. ofcourse, this is barring occurences and "logic" that is removed from human ability to comprehend which is a possibilit.

best,

surf:cool:
 
Dark,

Cmon bro why won't you answer the question directly???

Answer it like this

A) Yes God is the author of all evil in the world

B) No God is not the author of evil

Your signature once quoted Einstein "Everything should be made as simple as possible!"

Make your answer as simple as possible for me Dark...

PEACE Commisso
 
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