Superstition, Luck and Vodoo
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Originally posted by stu
Yes Darkhorse I think we have
I am not offended, there is no cause to be , but there's no point in conducting circuitous argument.
I am glad you have your faith, I guess I see myself to going the step further.
Good Luck to you
We have both come to the edge of our respective territories- for us to understand each other and dialogue with each other is an accomplishment in itself. I could not hope for more from such a brief meeting.
I don't believe in luck, but thx for the sentiment and same to you amigo
Actually, I hardly trust modern science.
I took a chance on a plane once, and it worked out okay. Took a chance with antibiotics, it didn't work out ok. Screwed up my health for the past 6 years. Using a computer seems to be safe, so I do it.
I don't trust other people thats for sure. Most science is pioneered for the purpose of greed. Should I trust a greedy person? No.
Do I beleive things I cannot see? Yes. But only if it makes logical sense.
Heres something to consider.
When the astronauts landed on the "moon", earth looked twice as big as the full moon looked from earth. Because they so much wanted to beleive that they landed on the moon, they didn't question this.
If you try to look at the sun make sure you wear the correct glasses.
DARK,
You know after much thought Dark, I believe I owe you an apology... As you know I was probably the first one on this thread to call you out on what you reffered to as ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY... BUT after much reflection I understand now that these "Absolute Truths" that you have come to were not soley on an intellectual or even conscious level... See I assumed that your search for God was a purely intellectual experience for you... I assumed wrong... I see now that your journey toward God was more spiritual and unselfconscious than I had once thought... I see now my folly and realize that it was more a problem with semantics than it was with your spirituality...
I too hold "absolute truths" only mine are not purely on an intellectual or conscious level andI see now that yours arent either...
So with all that said I apologize for calling you arrogant and delusional I should not have been so quick to judge you...
You have true faith my friend... what Jung would call "absolute knowledge" which far supercedes any absolute truth you could grasp purely with the mind...
I wish you all the best of luck on your journey
Commisso
Commisso:
Well said bro!
That is actually very close to the mark.
Looking back in light of that summation, I can say that logic did not lead to my certainty IN ITSELF, but rather opened the door for a 360 degree experience in which all parts synchronized and reinforced each other over time. My certainty emanates forth not from reason alone but from the completed structure which reason helped to build. God did not capture my heart with logic, He only used logic to draw me into the vortex.
Just goes to show you never know when you are going to learn something new or find a better way of expressing something old. I hadn't thought of communicating my experience in that way, might clear up some future tussles.
muchas gracias and good travels to u as well
Well said bro!
That is actually very close to the mark.
Looking back in light of that summation, I can say that logic did not lead to my certainty IN ITSELF, but rather opened the door for a 360 degree experience in which all parts synchronized and reinforced each other over time. My certainty emanates forth not from reason alone but from the completed structure which reason helped to build. God did not capture my heart with logic, He only used logic to draw me into the vortex.
Just goes to show you never know when you are going to learn something new or find a better way of expressing something old. I hadn't thought of communicating my experience in that way, might clear up some future tussles.
muchas gracias and good travels to u as well
Hey Lundy...
Glad your plane trip worked out. Sorry about the antibiotic ordeal...that really does suck!!
Not sure what you mean about this moon and earth thing, but I gotta admit....I am getting crazy trying to find out how you got that photo of me wearing my new specs
Seems like my life is becoming an open book...Chas has posted those nude pics of my wife, and now this
actually, no. as far as i know, the universe is believed to be a "hypersphere" -- ie a sphere, only in 3D, not 2D. so there is no central point to the universe -- all points are equal, just like on the surface of a sphere.
(i'm not an astrophysicist though, so i i'm not really familiar with all the competing theories and their acceptance levels.)
there is no consensus on this yet. instead there are several competing theories, most of which involve QM.
that's not a problem, actually, as "things only come form other things" is just an everyday notion that does not apply to all scales. for example, in QM there is an observed phenomenon (called vacuum fluctuations) that involve pairs of particles spontaneously emerging from, well, nothingness.
just did a quick google search and found this:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mark_vuletic/vacuum.html
by quick skimming it looks like an article arguing how the universe could have emerged as a quantum fluctuation from nothing, without breaking any (known) natural laws in the process, and - fittingly to the context of this thread - without needing a helping hand from god.
yes, counterintuitive, isn't it. however, it's actually not so hard to imagine: again, just look at the surface of a sphere, and imagine yourself being an ant on it -- there really is no "edge" around your "world" then, so the question "where's the edge of my world, and what comes after it?" becomes meaningless.
well, i think the above is - while technically correct - a bit misleading. the leap if of faith requred to believe in electrons is all but nonexistent. all one has to "believe in" are a) the macro-level phenomena, and b) logical reasoning.
if one does accept A and B, then the fact that "electrons exist" can be broken down to simple statements to which one can only answer "yes, that's correct".
if one denies either A or B, then - i'm sorry - there's a certain institution for such people, with white walls, relaxed atmosphere, and a bunch of medicaments served 3 times a day.
arriving at the belief in the existence god, on the other hand, requires a lot more than A & B. you need that elusive C to go with them, be it personal religious experience, an act of brainwashing, or something else.
- jaan
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