Superstition, Luck and Vodoo

[FasterPussycat]

i just want to say that i respect you, even like you ....you are an enigma to me though. how can a man so obviously intelligent & well read such as you are hold your position with absolute certainty. no WISE & RATIONAL man would dare do so, not on this topic. not on matters (such as this) that remain forever & always ...untestable.

therein lies the enigma.

one the one hand you seem sooo smart, but on the other you fly in the face of reason with your 'certitude'.

there is NO NO NO way you can know for sure IF you are rational(period!) you know as well as i do that a rational man is not rational one minute and then permits himself irrational episodes just to satisfy his primitive desires and needs. a man who prides himself as a rational man does not and would not (consciously)succumb to these baser levels of existence, not if it means selling his rational soul to the devil. and losing/giving up his MIND by the process. the true wise man could not look himself in the mirror if he allowed this to happen. :-/

 

[Gordon Gekko]

Originally posted by rs7
Conversely, I was offended by the "kill me now.I hate your mother" bit that was posted here recently by GG. I was ashamed of myself for laughing when I read it. And the weird thing is, I agree with his basic premise...I just am offended in how it was presented...

just curious, why were you offended if you at least partly agree with me? since i don't believe the bible, why would it matter to me what i say about it? i could say absolutely any derogatory statement about the bible and i would not care one bit. lol

 

[stu]

Originally posted by Commissio


Bro you CANNOT be absolutley certain... This is what makes you DELUSIONAL... You can have FAITH that the beliefs you hold so dear to your heart are true... But it is not certainty...

You read Popper, prove to me that it is absolute certainty that the sun will be here tommorrow and I will again have to say you are DELUSIONAL...

If you would have said look Commisso, I have searched far and wide and I have the utmost faith that for your own benefit you might want to consider believing in my God in order to avoid eternal damnation... That would be sincere... the manner in which you express your beliefs are downright offensive, appauling, and delusional!...

For your own benefit you might want to reconsider the manner in which you express your beliefs... You may just be able to help someone later on along your journey...

PEACE

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Perfect Commissio, what an inspiring post

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Originally posted by darkhorse
'Amen' was such a cool ending for this thread.

I know absolute certainty is possible, because it exists within me.


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Don't that so spoil the perfect ending
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[darkhorse]

Originally posted by FasterPussycat
i just want to say that i respect you, even like you ....you are an enigma to me though. how can a man so obviously intelligent & well read such as you are hold your position with absolute certainty. no WISE & RATIONAL man would dare do so, not on this topic. not on matters (such as this) that remain forever & always ...untestable.

Wow! That means a lot. Seriously. I like you too faster, now that both our tempers have died down. I didn't imagine this tussle could have ended in a declaration of friendship. I'm glad it has.

As far as how I can entertain certainty of an idea that's seemingly impossible, well, either I'm partially delusional or on to something really important. Call me a mystery wrapped in a riddle. All I can do is encourage a genuine search.

p.s. Commisso: if we can be certain of nothing, then certainty loses meaning by definition and from here on out should only be used as a derogatory term?

 

[Gordon Gekko]

Originally posted by darkhorse
Read my lips: I...am....intelligent. And not just marginally intelligent. Dispute my beliefs, fine, but don't dispute that fact. Read my posts on this board. Not just on God but on everything. Go to my amazon review page. Challenge me directly on any point you want. Obviously I can't respond to flames but if you want to get deep, we can get deep my friend. Maybe deeper than you have ever been.

'Christians are dumb' just doesn't fly. Maybe the Christians you have met in the past are dumb. Maybe the Christians you have read about or seen on TV are dumb.

you have me all wrong here.. i'm not questioning your intelligence or the intelligence of anyone that is religious. no doubt, there are many smart people who are religious. there are also many smart people who are not religious. my point was that i believe people can be "dumb" when it comes to specific issues, such as religion. i'll say it right here... i think you are dumb when it comes to religion. lol you may be knowledgeable with all the facts about the bible, etc. but you really have to be a total moron (on this issue) to believe the bible. now, i'm not saying it's everyone's own fault. although there are exceptions, many religious people were raised religious. if you don't think suggesting thoughts to a child as he/she grows up is a powerful thing, you're out to lunch. if you have been told your whole life that the bible is the answer to such a core belief as why we are here, of course you're gonna want to believe it. i feel sorry for you that your parents brought you to church every sunday.

 

[Commisso]

Originally posted by darkhorse


p.s. Commisso: if we can be certain of nothing, then certainty loses meaning by definition and from here on out should only be used as a derogatory term?

IMO it is derogatorily (or better put mis-used )used 90% of the time... It is an illusion... I can be absolutely certain the market rose from 1025 to 1080 or so around 1:00 yesterday... I can be absolutely certain that Hemingway (or a ghost writer) wrote The Sun Also Rises...

Can I be absolutely certain the weather won't drop to 40 below tomorrow???

Can I be absolutely certain that a rock is an inanimate piece of matter???

Could the guy who entered the NQ on Jan 1st of 2000 be absolutely certain that his stop would not be triggered with 75pt slippage???

What are we talking about here?

PEACE

 

[FasterPussycat]

i really wish you could persuade me. i mean that seriously. i would become absolutely ecstatic to experience a personal revelation of that magnitude. but nothing you have said is very compelling to that end. i am honestly disappointed that you couldn't support your views a little better (in view of your obvious intellect). i very much expected one or two thought provoking arguments if not hard proof to come from your lips, at the very least. apparently you have none to offer, or you won't present them for some reason unknown to me.

there are times you seem so lucid, so intellectually forceful in your postings here (i am serious, i know because i have read almost every one of your posts) i even seek you out here on ET.

BUT when it comes to you-know-what i seriously question whether you are truly a rational being or merely capable of it. you see what i mean. there is a difference. if you permit digressions into the irrational because it feels good, then you are not a genuine rational entity (and worthy of the greatest respect in my eyes) but one that is wishy-washy, too willing to trade the MIND for his emotion.

i look forward to response on what i've said above, and one other thing, i really did mean it when i said i wish you could persuade me. i really do mean that.

on a side note, could you give me the titles to a few good books or journals/articles that depict your point of view? something i can read that might help *me* gain some insight into your thought processes on this issue. thanks.

 

[Mike777]

what I find intereting about this thread is the ebb and flow of emotion. It reminds me of the decades of rhetoric that we got in Northern Ireland, fueled by unquestioned beliefs rooted in religion.
I can clearly remember an individual stating that the justification for terrorist acts was that those who suffered would not have done so if they were true believers in God (sic). When challenged that no would support that he claimed that many people do and that is why they get their funding from organisations like Noraid (American 'charity' that funded the IRA).
I clearly remember the day my grandparents received a letter bomb in the post because they had an Irish name but lived in London so they must be traitors. At the same time Catholics and Protestants were in pitched street battles in Belfast.
The last few years I have travelled many times to The Middle East including Israel. What I see there is no different to NI.
Make no mistake when religion becomes ingrained in the mind as an absolute truth the believer feels aloof from all others, even superior. I have never seen any good come of it.
I wish you all well what ever you believe, but please never assume that beliefs are THE only truth. Same goes for your trading.
Cheers

 

[FasterPussycat]

Originally posted by Commisso


IMO it is derogatorily (or better put mis-used )used 90% of the time... It is an illusion... I can be absolutely certain the market rose from 1025 to 1080 or so around 1:00 yesterday... I can be absolutely certain that Hemingway (or a ghost writer) wrote The Sun Also Rises...

Can I be absolutely certain the weather won't drop to 40 below tomorrow???

Can I be absolutely certain that a rock is an inanimate piece of matter???

Could the guy who entered the NQ on Jan 1st of 2000 be absolutely certain that his stop would not be triggered with 75pt slippage???

What are we talking about here?

PEACE

Excellent point here, commisso. the answer is a *no* to the latter three! and a RESOUNDING *NO* to the god hypothesis! :-/

 

[stu]

dark,
just to say with all respect to you ......

the quote was not 'certainty'.... but 'absolute certainty'.

I am sure everyone has been absolutely certain about something important only to be proved wrong, I know I have.

Now I've learned that, I don't say I have the absolute certain answer to the big question.
Neither does good science.
Good and bad religion says it does have the absolute certain answer.

If you are certain about your beliefs then fine and good, to then rationalise that to mean that is the absolute certain truth, is so mistaken and insulting to others.

ps.

do ya think maybe R.I.P. now instead of Amen?