Superior trader, a born talent or can be taught?

Quote from Thunderdog:

Two questions.

First, did he make money trading those blocks? :D

And second, does your example preclude the possibility of a non-"natural trader" from teaching himself to become a superior trader? I think that is the point of this thread.

However, I will agree that some folks seem to "get it" sooner than others, while some never do so for one reason or another.
More...

Yeah he does make money, very good money which he wastes frivilously. Yes he takes some big losses on some days, very big losses but thats part of the game when you play on that level. It's natural talent, he just had it and he never had to work too hard for it. I mean, his work ethic is near non-existant.

The guy could be gone with the Hybrid since he mostly reads the specialist, with amazing accuracy I must say. Who knows, he can handle some huge risks. It party does have to do with his background, he is set for life no matter what happens with trading.
 
However, I have some doubt, if it can be taught it mean anybody with an average intelligence can be successful after getting a good training. The following reasons:

1. To form a Turtles group, why need the interviews to select candidates since any one can be taught then just pick by random.
2. Why not all the Turtles are successful since they got the same training and used the same winning system.
More...

I was there as part of the most famous "experiment" in the matter of the original question, the Turtle experiment. I believe that my experience is relevant to the original question especially as bitrend's definition of "superior" was amended to mean successful.

I was in the first class of the Turtles, I watched the successes and failures firsthand.

I am confident that successful trading can be taught to some people, probably between 30% to 50% of people from my experience. The major obstacle to success is not lack of intelligence but rather poor psychological makeup. In fact, intelligence may be inversely correlated with success based on what I have seen.

From my experience, smart people tend to put more faith in their opinion and tend to want to predict the markets, they also tend to not want to admit they have made a mistake and will therefore rid losers more than they should.

Many people just can't seem to do the right thing even when they are taught explicitly.

Back to the original questions:

1) Richard Dennis admittted that they selected for, in his words, "extreme intelligence" because they could. They did not think it ended up being a factor in the likelihood of an individual's success.

2) I believe the success of any individual Turtle can be attributed to their psychological makeup. Some people were cut out for trading some were not. Some overcame those limitations and became successful, some did not.

Now all this having been said, I do believe that there is a level of talent that is beyond most people's ability. A truly great trader can learn and be taught but you can't teach someone who is not capable of being great enough to make them great.

So if bitrend had not defined superior to mean successful, but had left it at the more common English definition, I would answer that most people could not be taught to be "superior".

- Curtis
 
I've got a cadre of Undergrad music majors next door who play incessantly night and day POORLY. Nice guys but frankly their music sucks. I don't mean I don't like it I mean they can't play for shit. These are people who are taught, practice, and study music full-time at a "good school."

Seems easy enough. Little notes. Technical fluency with practice followed by playing free-hand by ear without sheet music.

So I have to say any talent is that a talent. Oft times those with talent don't "deserve it" but have it anyway and piss it away as they have no clue as to their abilities or don't care about stuff that others so eagerly pursue. But to a certain degree it can be taught.

And to the thousands that appreciate a good musician as musicians even good musicians they are the ones who can appreciate sheer talented artistry.
 
Quote from duard:

[B
And to the thousands that appreciate a good musician as musicians even good musicians they are the ones who can appreciate sheer talented artistry. [/B]
More...

Call me Grob Jr.
 
Quote from inflector:

A truly great trader can learn and be taught but you can't teach someone who is not capable of being great enough to make them great.
More...

This brings to mind another point: many great traders and investors are operating from a knowledge base that literally took a decade or more to build.

How does one 'teach' experience? And if greatness is a process, how does one communicate the process of becoming great?

----------------
A young boy traveled across Japan to the school of a famous martial artist.
When he arrived at the dojo he was given an audience by the Sensei.

"What do you wish from me?" the master asked.

"I wish to be your student and become the finest kareteka in the land,"
the boy replied. "How long must I study?"

"Ten years at least," the master answered.

"Ten years is a long time," said the boy.

"What if I studied twice as hard
as all your other students?"

"Twenty years," replied the master.

"Twenty years! What if I practice day and night with all my effort?"

"Thirty years," was the master's reply.

"How is it that each time I say I will work harder, you tell me that it
will take longer?" the boy asked.

"The answer is clear. When one eye is fixed upon your destination, there is
only one eye left with which to find the Way."
--------------
 
if you love it, have desire to succeed, intelligence and discipline,and patience, it can be taught.

If those elements are absent...they cant.
but in each of those elements, the same elements exist as a subset.

for example patience: requires, intelligence, discipline, the love of patience and the desire to be patiet to achieve that one quality. correct?

yes, i know that sounds stupid when you think about it...but it applies to everything in life. business, hobbies, family relationships etc.

every successful person in any field has these traits, and may a few more.

the ultimate seperator is what you like. I will never be a good accountant, engineer, musician, dancer or painter becuse i dont like those things, and as a result, cannot achieve the other elements required to be successful in that field.

thank god i love the market.....
 
I think anyone can be taught to do anything. Anyone can learn how to play a musical instrument, how to play a sport, etc. if they really want to learn it and if they enjoy doing it.
 
Quote from Cutten:

If it could be taught, then I could take an innumerate illiterate mental defective 3 or 70 year old and turn him into a great trader.

It it was pure talent, then every currently "great" trader would have been equally great the first day they started. Whereas almost all traders are mediocre or worse when they start out.

Clearly it takes a combination of natural skills and learned experience, like any other skilled activity.
More...

yes, the natural skills of 'applying yourself'!

take some field like accounting. The universities take great pains in trying to teach accounting to students, it's also all there in black and white in the textbooks and the rulebooks...

yet every year the majority of the students who intended to be accountants actually flunk accounting, and go do something else (and many of those who pass are fielded out by the CPA exam)

does this mean that accounting can't be taught? of course not

nitro's chess analogy was very good, most people can be taught to merely play (however many people can't even get past the initial learning to play stage)

but it takes effort and practice to actually be good at it

YET, when it comes to the markets, most people that start think they should be successfull just because they are taking up the endeavor in the first place (after all 'investing' is there for making money, right?), when that doesn't work, the next step would be to pick up a book, the thicker the better, and then they think because they put in the effort to read up on the markets they shoud make money, and so on...

also, 'intuition' and 'feeling' merely describes a person's accumulated knowledge and experience

if you have seen the market tank 80 out 100 times in the past in a certain environment and from a similar chart print, your 'intuition' may kick in and tell you so, without you having to actively recall all 80 prior exact situations
 
Quote from zentrader69:

I think anyone can be taught to do anything. Anyone can learn how to play a musical instrument, how to play a sport, etc. if they really want to learn it and if they enjoy doing it.
More...

Can a 4ft weakling be taught how to win the world heavyweight boxing championship? We are talking about teaching superior performance, not simply the ability to step into the ring and execute a few basic moves.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top