Superior trader, a born talent or can be taught?

It's just that the Holy Grail is to find out what makes sense to you. Not that the logical approach is how the markets work...Chaos theory would disprove that. At times its seems markets randomly move, but trends disprove that.

There is a Holy Grail...it is to discover how you can make a profit and tolerate the risk. Do you want to be glued to the screen? Do you want to do the laborous task of scalping? Do you prefer longer term trades? Do you like to strategize? Do you like a quick in and out with the feeling of grabbing some trend?....do you like reversals trending or contrarian?...this is all so personal and Holy Grailish'

There are many ways to take money out of the market..Find Yours.

Michael B.

P.S. The particualar system I posted about above, would be rather hard for a manual trader as there was a wait of several hours for your set up to present itself and then several hours for your arbing to materialize. It was much better to use the automated approach.

Quote from takenoprisoners:

Michael: You've mentioned "not my way of trading" before. Care to elaborate?
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This seems to be one of those oft-returned-to questions that has a straightforward and not very mysterious answer.

If you look at trading like a professional sport--baseball, basketball, golf--the parallels fall into place. Most anyone can become a decent golfer / YMCA b-baller / member of the company softball team if they work at it hard enough.

But to make money on a professional level, let alone be one of the greats, requires the conscious development of an innate talent.

Simple comparison: For every one athlete who makes it into the major leagues or onto the PGA tour, there are likely dozens if not hundreds who tried and failed to achieve that same goal. Of those who failed, many were as dedicated and motivated as can be.

When it comes down to the wire, dedication is a necessary condition for consideration in the first place. Nobody gets a gold star for deep motivation. If you 'want it' with all your heart and soul, that doesn't mean you get it---it just means you take your place in the line-up of guys who want it as badly as you do. And that's where innate ability kicks in.

As far as 'born talent' goes, early prowess can actually work against long term success, because pride and cockiness contribute to mental softness. Having the sense that things "come easy" can be lethal when one gets into the tough spots where the lessons come hard, if at all. (Maybe this is just saying the real talent is rooted in something other than early adaptation.)

For natural born traders, I would venture the 'innate' part comes in terms of stuff like emotional intelligence, creative faculties, concentration skills, raw memory (ability to recall relevant patterns and similar situations), analytical capability, commitment to objective reality, and so forth. The demands of trading are so varied and diverse that someone with a natural knack for trading simultaneously has the knack to kick ass in many other disciplines. (I am highly skeptical of these guys who are supposedly dumb as a box of hammers yet wizards in front of a trading screen. They are prime candidates for black box replacement.)

Many think psychology and attitude are the keys to the kingdom because that's what the pros spend so much time talking about. But--hello--that's what the pros talk about because the other pieces are already in place for them.

It's also hard to recognize special or innate talent in one's self because we are not out there comparing ourselves to others; we just do what we do each day, without a defined sense of where the performance comes from (in terms of hard work vs knack). It is an irony that those with high analytical ability are statistically likely to underestimate their own personal skill level, while those with low analytical ability are quite likely to overestimate. This catch 22 draws many moths to the flame.
 
Quote from takenoprisoners:

Every post I've read of yours tells me you are one smart dude! Looking forward to using the search feature to read more. If you trade the way you think I suspect you do quite well unless you have a handicap like a tendency towards gambling.
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Thank you for your kind words. You will find that there are many people here who disagree with your sentiment. I don't know if you will learn anything particularly worthwhile from my posts since I spend a fair amount of time in my role as a gadfly.
 
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timmyz


i think you misunderstood me. i was hoping someone would give an example of the "born talent" that's required for trading that's comparable to the examples i gave.
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Lance Armstrong had an edge and was probably born winner. But that doesn't mean everyone else are just pikers.

Same in trading, there are probably people out there who for one reason or another do better than most or are considered Top traders. And make many millions of dollars a year either alone or with companies.

But I think one could consider someone making 10 or 20% of a million or more could or should be considered successful.

Gates just recently was again judged to be the riches man in the world with 50+ billion. I think it would be fair to say someone earring 1% of that could also be considered rich, and successful.

I may not understand what point you are trying to make but that's my 2 cents.

don
 
A good comparison is Trader vs Poker Pro

They both require a similar skill set:

Strong math/strategic analysis skills.
Very strong discipline under pressure.
Ability to quickly spot "dead end" strategies.
Confident, instantaneous decision making.
Cold hard realism when evaluating any situation.

You are basically born with the right skill set...
And then it takes roughly 10 years to develop those skills to a high level.

If you have what it takes...
Then you have been analyzing and playing various "math games" all your life.

If you disagree with my post...
It's extremely likely that you do NOT have what it takes.

rm+

:cool: :cool: :cool:
 
The closest analogy to being able to trade great is to be able to hit a curve ball. Very few great hitters if any are incapable of hitting a curve ball; otherwise the word gets out and pitchers will strike you out on that pitch consistantly. Thing is, the eye brain combination is not optimized by nature to be able to do this, because little in our everday experience for survival requires recognition of non-linear motion. So those that can do it well are a kind of freak of nature. On the other hand, you can teach anyone to hit a fastball.

Imo the one distinguishing feature of a great trader is knowing when a phase transition has occured, and to know when to bet big at those boundaries. To average traders, all moves look like a "fastball" but in fact the market mostly throws "curveballs". It is the great trader that can tell, within the required time frame, that in fact he was "thrown a fastball and not a curveball" and react with a heavy bet or a light bet accordingly.

nitro
 
Probably all the profitable traders, system vendors and trading mentors want us (the newbies) keep trading, regardless our unexpected performance, by telling us that everyone on earth can be (taught) a superior trader - one day.

:cool:
 
I'll have to vote for the ability of superior trading talent to be taught. Any other belief on my part is non-resourceful and self defeating .
 
Having seen many traders and watched their performance and their evolution, I strongly believe that good traders are born with special talent. You can improve on that talent but unless there is that basic innate aptitude and talent most don't go far. It is painful truth for many to accept.
 
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