Sugar Cane Fuel Production...
- Thread starter canyonman00
- Start date
Isn't it true that sugar cane needs quite large application of nitrogen fertilizer ? These days, thats probably urea, replacing ammonium nitrate which can be used for making bombs. Urea is made from ammonia which is made from natural gas. So is there a net reduction in fossil fuel consumption?
I don't know the answer, I'm just posing the question.
Recently I read of a research project looking into the use of legumes as the biomass, which sounds attractive because they basically make their own nitrogen fertilizer.
I don't know the answer, I'm just posing the question.
Recently I read of a research project looking into the use of legumes as the biomass, which sounds attractive because they basically make their own nitrogen fertilizer.
The Indian government after performing feasibility analysis have concluded that jatropha is a far better alternative for energy production than agricultural grains...
What is important here is that a cold mechanical process needs to be perfected...then the energy ratio is highly positive,,,
Arid climates...longevity of the plant...50 years..high relative yield...use of non agricultural land..are pluses...
The Indians are no dummies...however the labor issue is far different..and miliions of women are expected to be employed in harvesting...providing much needed employment...
Worth looking into....Indians are very frugal and intelligent...
What is important here is that a cold mechanical process needs to be perfected...then the energy ratio is highly positive,,,
Arid climates...longevity of the plant...50 years..high relative yield...use of non agricultural land..are pluses...
The Indians are no dummies...however the labor issue is far different..and miliions of women are expected to be employed in harvesting...providing much needed employment...
Worth looking into....Indians are very frugal and intelligent...
Quote from canyonman00:
Interesting! Diesel potential.
I believe Iowa currently has a bio deisel plant from soybeans - no engine adjustments needed, just pump 'n drive. And Florida is about to spend a few scharoles on a plant to convert its massive amounts of cane by-products into ethanol.
In the late 1950's, my father subscribed to Popular Mechanics. In one issue, there was a story with building instructions about a hybred auto that got 100+ mpg. Several batteries (of that day's technology) provided the electric power to drive the car, while a gas lawn mower engine was used to keep the batteries charged.
Any ideas on how that setup could work today ... possibly using an ethanol powered small gas engine to keep the batteries charged ?????
I'm an old engineering student. Harvesting with minimal human labor is now the thought. I have two friends who are working on a machine for harvesting fruit without illegal immigrants for the produce industry now. I called them both this morning and challenged them to add this commodity also.
The Indian Government has mechanical solutions as well...but wants to employ people...
You may gain further information from them...
Other issues....The oil is inedible...and long term usage with regards to diesel engines...toxicity of emissions...etc...
Keep in mind who generally ruins the curve in mathmatics class...yeah an Indian...
Spend most of your time researching directly with the Indian situation...
You may gain further information from them...
Other issues....The oil is inedible...and long term usage with regards to diesel engines...toxicity of emissions...etc...
Keep in mind who generally ruins the curve in mathmatics class...yeah an Indian...
Spend most of your time researching directly with the Indian situation...
Yes, Iowa has a bio diesel plant and I am working on contacting them today. Florida with a cane facility? Hmm! Oh wait, probably government funded. That means there's a ton of fat in that puppy. I'll look into it any way.
Amazing how building in guaranteed inefficiency issues (cheap labor) at the beginning makes for that inevitable downfall. I'd like to try it just a bit differently here. Kill that loophole now so to speak. I'm not trying to employ a lot of folks. I want to produce an efficient product.
I have a beverage product that I am fighting with investment two partners about currently. We have been told by the marketing company that it could retail for as much as $1.50 per serving. It costs us $0.08 per serving to make. There's a ton of profit in the planned price of $0.60 retail. But everyone seems to live for maximum money.
I have a beverage product that I am fighting with investment two partners about currently. We have been told by the marketing company that it could retail for as much as $1.50 per serving. It costs us $0.08 per serving to make. There's a ton of profit in the planned price of $0.60 retail. But everyone seems to live for maximum money.
Yeah...I know ...but India wants to solve a people issue...and an energy issue...
For that matter ...some ex ceo board members of the nasdaq have put together a start up company in India...
You know the heavy soybean oriented biodiesel projects recently announced have other markets when the price of oil drops...
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Jatropha...no
But..if the b/e is very low...ok...
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Issues
Plant science....disease...climate...etc..
Engine wear...constant usage...
3 years before yields begin...
When I see a lot of non qualifieds jumping around ...this bothers me...same as the 1979-80 period...
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This is when you make sure the economics are solid...not only the desire to just do something...
For that matter ...some ex ceo board members of the nasdaq have put together a start up company in India...
You know the heavy soybean oriented biodiesel projects recently announced have other markets when the price of oil drops...
.......................................................................................
Jatropha...no
But..if the b/e is very low...ok...
.................................................................................
Issues
Plant science....disease...climate...etc..
Engine wear...constant usage...
3 years before yields begin...
When I see a lot of non qualifieds jumping around ...this bothers me...same as the 1979-80 period...
..................................................................................
This is when you make sure the economics are solid...not only the desire to just do something...
Sugar is a very viable raw material to make ethanol; however, there are powerfull politicis that keep the price of sugar in the USA about double the world market.
I don''t know if these can be overcome and if not, whether large scale conversion of sugar to C2H5OH is possible.
Read this recent piece by Niall Ferguson:
"Unnoticed in the northern hemisphere, one country is pioneering a transportation revolution by switching from petrol to ethanol. That country is Brazil. Today, ethanol accounts for 40 per cent of all automobile fuel in Brazil, while 80 per cent of new Brazilian cars are flexible-fuel cars that can run on either petrol or ethanol.
What's preventing the northern hemisphere from following Brazil's lead? The answer is not so much Big Oil -- though American oil companies have fought tooth and nail against the introduction of ethanol, even as a fuel additive -- as Small Agriculture. To protect northern farmers, huge tariffs are currently imposed on imports of Brazilian-produced ethanol by both the United States and the European Union."
Full:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/...3.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/04/30/ixportal.html
And George Will has a good take on the power of sugar:
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/georgewill/2004/02/12/10731.html
For a humorous look at its power, see the movie, "Striptease".
DS
I don''t know if these can be overcome and if not, whether large scale conversion of sugar to C2H5OH is possible.
Read this recent piece by Niall Ferguson:
"Unnoticed in the northern hemisphere, one country is pioneering a transportation revolution by switching from petrol to ethanol. That country is Brazil. Today, ethanol accounts for 40 per cent of all automobile fuel in Brazil, while 80 per cent of new Brazilian cars are flexible-fuel cars that can run on either petrol or ethanol.
What's preventing the northern hemisphere from following Brazil's lead? The answer is not so much Big Oil -- though American oil companies have fought tooth and nail against the introduction of ethanol, even as a fuel additive -- as Small Agriculture. To protect northern farmers, huge tariffs are currently imposed on imports of Brazilian-produced ethanol by both the United States and the European Union."
Full:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/...3.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/04/30/ixportal.html
And George Will has a good take on the power of sugar:
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/georgewill/2004/02/12/10731.html
For a humorous look at its power, see the movie, "Striptease".
DS