Quote from PHOENIX TRADING:
once again you show your penchant for not being disciplined, you need to develop a plan to curb this destructive behavior.
I think you posted to the wrong person I'm not having problems with discipline.Quote from Shanb:
Have you tried the visualization technique I recommended?
You have a systematic system and you still can't remain disciplined lol. Imagine if you traded with a more discretionary approach, you would be wiped out man! Systematic signals are easy...you have clearly defined variables for entering and exiting trades. Where is the disconnect here?
Quote from Shanb:
Have you tried the visualization technique I recommended?
You have a systematic system and you still can't remain disciplined lol. Imagine if you traded with a more discretionary approach, you would be wiped out man! Systematic signals are easy...you have clearly defined variables for entering and exiting trades. Where is the disconnect here?
Quote from gmst:
First, dom993 thanks for being a keen follower and posting very insightful commentary.
To ShanB and others -
post of dom993 sums it up very well - especially the second paragraph. He precisely nailed the reasons for divergence between actual trading and systematic trading, especially for someone in the process of setting up his systematic trading operation.
In "Way of the Turtle", Curtis Faith describes in detail that all the turtles had different performances when each of them were trading the same specific system - due to inability to enter and exit the positions as mandated by the system. So, I am not alone facing this problem. Traders who are able to control this tendency will turn out to be winners and other will be losers.
As of today, my trading has 4 parts:
1. Trading FX systematically - profitable
2. Trading FX discretionary - profitable
3. Trading ES systematically - profitable
4. Trading ES discretionary - Consistently unprofitable
So, I need to stop point number 4, which is causing losses. I am taking a few concrete steps as I type this to solve this problem:
1. Henceforth, I will post 3 sets of weekly performances:
A) Net account performance that I have been posting since the beginning
B) All actual FX trading performance - includes both discretionary and systematic FX trading (I will remove all the trades other than FX from this performance numbers)
C) This will consist of above point B) AND hypothetical systematic ES trading performance numbers.
So, C) would be what I can achieve if I take all systematic trades in ES along with all the real FX trades that I am taking in my account.
My ultimate aim is to make performance numbers in A) = C). If I can achieve this, I would become independently wealthy.
2. I have just now written following rule and have posted it in front of my desk - "that I should trade FX both discretionary and systematically and take only systematic trades in ES". I am going to read out this rule every 4 hours everyday for next 1 month. (Research has shown that any new habit can be instilled by deliberate practice of 21 days, so 1 month reading it aloud should help).
3. I have been trading independently without any accountability. Lack of discipline is a problem that traders in an office also face, its just harder for a home based trader. To overcome this problem, I just had a discussion with my sibling and he agreed to help me maintain my discipline by asking me every hour from 930 EST to 1600 EST if I am doing everything as per my plan regarding ES trading. This constant reminder will surely help me immediately starting from tomorrow.
4. Yes, I have tried visualization and it is definitely helping. Will continue doing it. Need more practice and time with it.
5. As a reward to myself and my family, once I have 4 consecutive weeks with zero unsystematic ES trades and taking all systematic trades in ES, I will take my whole family out for a vacation. I already let them know of this and they are hoping that I don't mess up with my plan going forward.
I don't know of any better motivator "to follow my trading plan" compared to above steps. I am sure taking above concrete steps would help me get away from this vicious circle.
Quote from gmst:
First, dom993 thanks for being a keen follower and posting very insightful commentary.
To ShanB and others -
post of dom993 sums it up very well - especially the second paragraph. He precisely nailed the reasons for divergence between actual trading and systematic trading, especially for someone in the process of setting up his systematic trading operation.
In "Way of the Turtle", Curtis Faith describes in detail that all the turtles had different performances when each of them were trading the same specific system - due to inability to enter and exit the positions as mandated by the system. So, I am not alone facing this problem. Traders who are able to control this tendency will turn out to be winners and other will be losers.
As of today, my trading has 4 parts:
1. Trading FX systematically - profitable
2. Trading FX discretionary - profitable
3. Trading ES systematically - profitable
4. Trading ES discretionary - Consistently unprofitable
So, I need to stop point number 4, which is causing losses. I am taking a few concrete steps as I type this to solve this problem:
1. Henceforth, I will post 3 sets of weekly performances:
A) Net account performance that I have been posting since the beginning
B) All actual FX trading performance - includes both discretionary and systematic FX trading (I will remove all the trades other than FX from this performance numbers)
C) This will consist of above point B) AND hypothetical systematic ES trading performance numbers.
So, C) would be what I can achieve if I take all systematic trades in ES along with all the real FX trades that I am taking in my account.
My ultimate aim is to make performance numbers in A) = C). If I can achieve this, I would become independently wealthy.
2. I have just now written following rule and have posted it in front of my desk - "that I should trade FX both discretionary and systematically and take only systematic trades in ES". I am going to read out this rule every 4 hours everyday for next 1 month. (Research has shown that any new habit can be instilled by deliberate practice of 21 days, so 1 month reading it aloud should help).
3. I have been trading independently without any accountability. Lack of discipline is a problem that traders in an office also face, its just harder for a home based trader. To overcome this problem, I just had a discussion with my sibling and he agreed to help me maintain my discipline by asking me every hour from 930 EST to 1600 EST if I am doing everything as per my plan regarding ES trading. This constant reminder will surely help me immediately starting from tomorrow.
4. Yes, I have tried visualization and it is definitely helping. Will continue doing it. Need more practice and time with it.
5. As a reward to myself and my family, once I have 4 consecutive weeks with zero unsystematic ES trades and taking all systematic trades in ES, I will take my whole family out for a vacation. I already let them know of this and they are hoping that I don't mess up with my plan going forward.
I don't know of any better motivator "to follow my trading plan" compared to above steps. I am sure taking above concrete steps would help me get away from this vicious circle.
Quote from Shanb:
Well, let me ask you this...do you really believe the above solutions will help to make you a disciplined trader? How is this approach fundamentally different from what you did last time to help your discipline?!
Quote from gmst:
Yes I think so above points are very practical points. I didn't do anything like this last time. But if the problem persists, I will have to rethink the approach.
Btw I think undercapitalization is another problem rather than having some equity. Think like this - If I have 20,000 in my account I make 6% on average per week, that is 1200$ average per week, and on good weeks can be anything between 2k to 3k. When I am making that much dollar amount per week, I have much less incentive to tinker with the system. Currently I am making 200$ a week, a negligible sum - thus all the incentive at a subconcious level to tinker with the system.
4-5 times a day visualization. I was doing it once a day but now when you say that I think it makes sense to do it 4-5 times a day at least for a month. Thanks for this suggestion. So I am adding this in my toolkit to attack the problem of discipline.