Successful traders keep silent because trading is so simple...

1.) Yes, discretionary traders must use simple methods because you cannot trade if you have analysis paralysis. In trading you are like an athlete, you need to see and act.

2.) There are no secrets, everything leaks out.

One method may have a great edge for three months or a year, but then loses money after that. If you were to back-test that method for 3 years you would say, hey, this has no edge, but for six months it was like printing money.

The people who were in on the "secret" from the beginning of the move most likely stumbled onto it. At first they are too busy to share their secret and besides, they don't think it will last. Then if it keeps working, some will start sharing it with their close associates or family/friends. Then when it starts breaking even or losing, some people sell the method to the general public. Finally when it is a confirmed loser, it leaks out for free to everyone.

So, the "secret" simple method is really only 5% of what you need to know. I think Larry Williams once said that you can use almost any tool successfully if the market is right. The rest is money management, personal psychology, getting comfortable with randomness and recognizing changing markets and exploiting them.

Hedge funds will run multiple systems that are optimized for different market conditions. If one starts showing profits, they throw money at it. Discretionary traders need to have that same flexibility.

If I were a systems trader, instead of trying to find the holy grail that works over a 5 year period (which might be impossible), I would optimize several systems for many market conditions and then run them all real-time and see which one is showing profits and start putting my money there.

Of course there is no guarantee that a new market condition will have any staying power. Conditions that last 6 months to a year (like the tech bubble or the 2008 swinging market) are rare.

Anyhow, thats my two cents worth.



Quote from ion:

Have you ever wonder why successful traders are so secretive about their trading?

In other disciplines, you generally find successful people open up and share about their experiences and success... it is human nature that people WANT to talk about their success... it feeds the ego, and successful people generally have big ego...

But this doesn't happen in trading... those who talk most probably trade worst... do you know why?

Many people point to the zero sum game mentality and states that if too many people knows about it the profit goes away...

This is simply not true, because trading is not a zero sum game... this is true even for derivatives such as futures and options... and successful traders all know about that...

The reason they don't talk... is simply because successful trading is so simple... or I should say, successful trading method is very simple...

The methods are so simple that you only need 30 seconds to tell someone the essence... what is difficult is the path that one had to go thru before he reaches these simple methods (enlightened stage?)

The name of the game is to figure out what DOESN'T work... there could be tens of thousands of items on your list, and what you do is to throw out the items one by one, until you're down to the last 2 or 3 items that really stays there...

If it took you 10 years of work to figure this out... and then you find out you can pretty much tell ANYONE in a day what those 2 or 3 items are and make him as good as you in trading... what would you feel? You feel a sense of "unfairness" and avoid to simply "give it away"... It is this sense of "unfairness" that create the "my precious" mentality...

Some would even fall into denial and start to make trading sound complicated... as if successful trading has much to do with "the trader"... the inner state, some sort of energy flow or psychology that only a "true master" possess... they tell you successful trading is "all about the trader" and little to do with the method... they can't accept the fact that they're making all these money with such simple methods... they have to feel special and they practice buddism to make it complicated...

The only reason why people shut up after they've "made it" is because successful trading is so simple...

They're just human and they are selfish individuals... they can't help but enjoy seeing other people walking in the dark while they're printing money because "they deserve it"... occasionally they "give back" to the community by handing out small tips without revealling anything of meaning simply because they need to let their ego out somewhere...

I have yet to see ONE genuinely successful trader sharing his current trading methodology in whole...

It is simple as that... people don't talk because it is so simple... if it were complicated they don't need to keep silent - they can give you phone books of rocket science equations and you won't figure it out anyways...

The first person who invented the wheel was a genius, the second person only need one peep to get level... understandably the first person would want to stay genius for as long as possible...
 
Quote from iuykcif:



When a limited mind grabs many things and technical notions, it is often fooled in believing it knows a lot. Simply because unaware of its unlimitedness.
____________________
Tom

You seem to uncovered the roots of ET
 
Quote from saxon22:

Learning the craft of trading is like learning how to drive a car.

BTW this thread illustrates how ET have changed since this thread started. Most of the participants are gone from posting, although I wold bet my right hand, not from trading.

Great analogy.

In comparison a lot of traders attempt to learn to drive a car for a few weeks and find it impossible so they give up and devote their lives to telling other people that taking a bus is the only safe way to travel and people that drive cars successfully are just pretending to do so. Then they want you to produce your driving record to prove you can't drive.
 
Quote from saxon22:

Learning the craft of trading is like learning how to drive a car.

BTW this thread illustrates how ET have changed since this thread started. Most of the participants are gone from posting, although I wold bet my right hand, not from trading.

Yes, many of the successful ET traders got tired of being told they were liars and ignorant by full time posters who have no idea how to trade.

My main use for EliteTrader is to gauge trader sentiment and measure the wind. Of course for use as a contrarian indicator. There is hardly anything useful for my trading here. Almost purely for entertainment purposes.
 
While I am in total agreement with the topic title itself, you are way off on your reasoning about why successful traders dont talk for selfish reasons.

Fact is that you can try your best to explain to people who can't see how easy it is but they will not understand on explanation alone. It is my opinion that most new traders go into it with "trading is difficult" embeded into their minds.

They waste too much time and effort on 3 things.

1) looking for "holy grail" indicators
2) reading trading books
3) trying to follow so called "gurus"

they solidify in ones mind that trading is supposed to be complex. They can create a false sense of confidence.

Until someone has been gone through enough pain to be able to admit to themselves that the things they looked for is not working. They will then throw all the BS out the window. It takes people years to be able to completely throw something they are so used to doing out the window.

Bottomline, trading is not something that you can read about and be good at. Just like anything else, you get better with experience.

"The name of the game is to figure out what DOESN'T work... there could be tens of thousands of items on your list, and what you do is to throw out the items one by one, until you're down to the last 2 or 3 items that really stays there..."

That part is so true..

to be successful at trading you only need to do 4 things.

#1 Learn how to read a chart
#2 Learn Technical Analysis
#3 Don't have a bias
#4 Trust yourself

IF one can do those things, you will then be able to execute and make money. Everything else is just a distraction.

Edit: I just realized how old this topic was..lol crazy
 
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