You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Success/Failure
- Thread starter SimpleTrades
- Start date
What argument? There is no argument. You don't trade. If winning hypothetically in your hypothetical system that only needs 7k to operate (very small amount of capital for an automated system) is your focus -- more power to you [sarcasm implied]. I have a fully automated live system that's been live for about a year (I don't post it in the P/L thread) and I can you tell right now that slippage is real and it will effect your real results -- at least in equities it will.Quote from Lucias:
You make some good points. You may be right. What makes you think I care? Unlike bhardy, I care more about winning at the market then winning your argument.
PS:
You are also wrong on several points. It is not my job to point out where you are wrong.
Fine. I'm wrong all the time, everyday. No big deal. I'll be thinking about all those points I'm wrong about tomorrow pre-market and probably well after the close. Lol. In all seriousness, good luck getting your model live and I hope you make some coin. In fairness to bhardy, I think he was merely protecting himself because he felt he was unnecessarily attacked by a stranger for no good reason. He said at the outset he's looking to succeed...not argue with you. Whenever/If ever you fire up your model or your discretionary trading...good trading to you sir.
>Quote from ElecEquity: I personally know guys that routinely >booked six figure and seven figure trading days during that time.
>Do you not understand? The two guys that I know that traded >during the '90's are STILL multimillionaires >and one still trades.
Everyone knows someone. And, why do I care? More importantly, why do you care?
>Again, if you trade...post in the P/L thread and prove me wrong. I hope that you're actually profitable. >I'm not a negative person and I don't wish failure upon anyone. But so far you're all talk...albeit >esoteric convoluted talk...but talk nonetheless.
Why would someone who considers himself one of the best in the world at calling the market feel a need
to prove anything to you? Also, what makes you think I didn't post my profit and loss in the P&L thread?
What you think that you know, you know very little of. I also post some of my calls on my blog for anyone to see.
>He just started. No one within reason would expect him to know what he's doing.
He said "I have been watching and studying the economy and stock markets for many years. You sound young. At a macro level, I might actually know more than you." I didn't. I didn't say otherwise either.
>Why would he want to be trained by you? Why would anyone? You've been condescending and your posts are >about as esoteric and nonsensical as Jack Hershey's posts...maybe worse than his because of the
Why do you feel that is a bad thing?
>By the way, I've met with Dr. Brett personally and your "Insights" thread does a disservice to his >traderfeed blog.
That is your opinion. I've no idea why you think my insights are related to traderfeed. I've no affiliation with traderfeed but enjoyed that blog immensely and try to credit my sources when possible.
>implies that you make zero money trading. So I ask again -- Why would anyone want to be coached by you? >Why would anyone want your advice on how to trade successfully?
Possibly because I've did something that few people have did. I've had my track record audited, yes a hypothetical record, and have managed to profit from a single contract directional only futures system with a consistency and profitability that only a few other systems have managed. Possibly because I know what I'm talking about and am an expert. Perhaps because I've demonstrated both profitable discretionary trading and have built profitable trading systems.
>Oops...I guess you don't trade. The P&L thread isn't for hypothetical model results. So I guess you won't >be posting there.
You are wrong again. I've already posted in the P&L thread. I've already had real live money trades too. And, there is a moderator here who knows this.
>Do it for greatness? Do it for glory? More bad advice. Do it for money. Trading is a business. Protect >capital and make money. Don't do it to be great. If that happens as a result of your actions -- that's >great.
I can make the opposite statement, "Do it to be great. Don't worry about protecting your capital because the first rule is to make money. If you make money you can afford to lose money. If the money comes then that's great."
Gary Smith wrote "The most foolhardy thing I hear from wannabe traders is their desire to quit their jobs and trade for a living. They just assume that they will live off their trading profits. That's no way to build a businessâand trading is certainly a business. It's imperative for small-time traders, such as I was in the 1980s, to compound their trading capital. You can't do that if you are constantly withdrawing funds from your account for taxes and other expenses."
>I'll say that I've read many of your posts and it appears you're trying to be helpful at times and other >times you're trying to advertise a system that no one wants to buy. It's also clear that you DO NOT trade >actively. There's really not much else that I need to say to you.
I do not have any trading systems for sell. I have never sold a trading system. You are very confused. I am placing trades with my own capital. I have posted in the P&L thread. I have one trading system that I use for tracking my record which I explicitly have stated should not be subscribed too. I've another mechanical system that is open for subscription. I do have a report where I describe my methodologies that is for sale.
You should check your facts and not assume you know anything because on almost every point you were wrong.
>Do you not understand? The two guys that I know that traded >during the '90's are STILL multimillionaires >and one still trades.
Everyone knows someone. And, why do I care? More importantly, why do you care?
>Again, if you trade...post in the P/L thread and prove me wrong. I hope that you're actually profitable. >I'm not a negative person and I don't wish failure upon anyone. But so far you're all talk...albeit >esoteric convoluted talk...but talk nonetheless.
Why would someone who considers himself one of the best in the world at calling the market feel a need
to prove anything to you? Also, what makes you think I didn't post my profit and loss in the P&L thread?
What you think that you know, you know very little of. I also post some of my calls on my blog for anyone to see.
>He just started. No one within reason would expect him to know what he's doing.
He said "I have been watching and studying the economy and stock markets for many years. You sound young. At a macro level, I might actually know more than you." I didn't. I didn't say otherwise either.
>Why would he want to be trained by you? Why would anyone? You've been condescending and your posts are >about as esoteric and nonsensical as Jack Hershey's posts...maybe worse than his because of the
Why do you feel that is a bad thing?
>By the way, I've met with Dr. Brett personally and your "Insights" thread does a disservice to his >traderfeed blog.
That is your opinion. I've no idea why you think my insights are related to traderfeed. I've no affiliation with traderfeed but enjoyed that blog immensely and try to credit my sources when possible.
>implies that you make zero money trading. So I ask again -- Why would anyone want to be coached by you? >Why would anyone want your advice on how to trade successfully?
Possibly because I've did something that few people have did. I've had my track record audited, yes a hypothetical record, and have managed to profit from a single contract directional only futures system with a consistency and profitability that only a few other systems have managed. Possibly because I know what I'm talking about and am an expert. Perhaps because I've demonstrated both profitable discretionary trading and have built profitable trading systems.
>Oops...I guess you don't trade. The P&L thread isn't for hypothetical model results. So I guess you won't >be posting there.
You are wrong again. I've already posted in the P&L thread. I've already had real live money trades too. And, there is a moderator here who knows this.
>Do it for greatness? Do it for glory? More bad advice. Do it for money. Trading is a business. Protect >capital and make money. Don't do it to be great. If that happens as a result of your actions -- that's >great.
I can make the opposite statement, "Do it to be great. Don't worry about protecting your capital because the first rule is to make money. If you make money you can afford to lose money. If the money comes then that's great."
Gary Smith wrote "The most foolhardy thing I hear from wannabe traders is their desire to quit their jobs and trade for a living. They just assume that they will live off their trading profits. That's no way to build a businessâand trading is certainly a business. It's imperative for small-time traders, such as I was in the 1980s, to compound their trading capital. You can't do that if you are constantly withdrawing funds from your account for taxes and other expenses."
>I'll say that I've read many of your posts and it appears you're trying to be helpful at times and other >times you're trying to advertise a system that no one wants to buy. It's also clear that you DO NOT trade >actively. There's really not much else that I need to say to you.
I do not have any trading systems for sell. I have never sold a trading system. You are very confused. I am placing trades with my own capital. I have posted in the P&L thread. I have one trading system that I use for tracking my record which I explicitly have stated should not be subscribed too. I've another mechanical system that is open for subscription. I do have a report where I describe my methodologies that is for sale.
You should check your facts and not assume you know anything because on almost every point you were wrong.
Quote from d08:
I agree with that, plenty of people here give advice while their own trading performance is bad or mediocre, the advice from those people isn't worth much - only perhaps to do the opposite of what these people recommend.
Won't work. There are a 1000 ways to lose and only a 100 ways to win. Doing the opposite of what a loser recommends is just another one of the 1000 ways to lose.
Quote from Lucias:
>Quote from ElecEquity: I personally know guys that routinely >booked six figure and seven figure trading days during that time.
>Do you not understand? The two guys that I know that traded >during the '90's are STILL multimillionaires >and one still trades.
Everyone knows someone. And, why do I care? More importantly, why do you care?
>Again, if you trade...post in the P/L thread and prove me wrong. I hope that you're actually profitable. >I'm not a negative person and I don't wish failure upon anyone. But so far you're all talk...albeit >esoteric convoluted talk...but talk nonetheless.
Why would someone who considers himself one of the best in the world at calling the market feel a need
to prove anything to you? Also, what makes you think I didn't post my profit and loss in the P&L thread?
What you think that you know, you know very little of. I also post some of my calls on my blog for anyone to see.
>He just started. No one within reason would expect him to know what he's doing.
He said "I have been watching and studying the economy and stock markets for many years. You sound young. At a macro level, I might actually know more than you." I didn't. I didn't say otherwise either.
>implies that you make zero money trading. So I ask again -- Why would anyone want to be coached by you? >Why would anyone want your advice on how to trade successfully?
Possibly because I've did something that few people have did. I've had my track record audited, yes a hypothetical record, and have managed to profit from a single contract directional only futures system with a consistency and profitability that only a few other systems have managed. Possibly because I know what I'm talking about and am an expert. Perhaps because I've demonstrated both profitable discretionary trading and have built profitable trading systems.
>Oops...I guess you don't trade. The P&L thread isn't for hypothetical model results. So I guess you won't >be posting there.
You are wrong again. I've already posted in the P&L thread. I've already had real live money trades too. And, there is a moderator here who knows this.
>Do it for greatness? Do it for glory? More bad advice. Do it for money. Trading is a business. Protect >capital and make money. Don't do it to be great. If that happens as a result of your actions -- that's >great.
I can make the opposite statement, "Do it to be great. Don't worry about protecting your capital because the first rule is to make money. If you make money you can afford to lose money. If the money comes then that's great."
>I'll say that I've read many of your posts and it appears you're trying to be helpful at times and other >times you're trying to advertise a system that no one wants to buy. It's also clear that you DO NOT trade >actively. There's really not much else that I need to say to you.
I do not have any trading systems for sell. I have never sold a trading system. You are very confused. I am placing trades with my own capital. I have posted in the P&L thread. I have one trading system that I use for tracking my record which I explicitly have stated should not be subscribed too. I've another mechanical system that is open for subscription. I do have a report where I describe my methodologies that is for sale.
You should check your facts and not assume you know anything because on almost every point you were wrong.
1st - Why do I care? Because one of the guys trades in my office and I pick his brain all the time. It's nice to personally know a higher echelon trader and to have the opportunity to understand his mental model.
2nd - You consider yourself (hypothetically, of course) the best in the world??? Wow.....hmmm....self-delusions of grandeur are within your inalienable rights.
3rd - So you've demonstrated all this success with profitable discretionary trading & system development -- yet, by your own recent admission...
....lol I can't make this stuff up. Why would such an expert have difficulty funding a trading account or joining a retail prop shop?....not to mention that you're the best in the world.Quote from Lucias: I'm getting close to where I can start trading with my savings. My 100% quantitative program requires 7k. But I can make more using my discretionary techniques but that requires quite a bit more and one can't have an undue fear of losing which might be difficult to do on borrowed money. However, on my mechanical program that could work (or not).
4th - If you have posted in the P&L thread it must be under another handle...because I don't see your name anywhere in any past or present P&L threads. If you posted under another handle than I can't be held accountable for being ignorant of your alternative handle.
5th - And I can't believe that you said,
....great expert advice there buddy. Anyone that knows anything about trading knows that a statement like that is totally ridiculous. Focus only on making money...don't manage your losers at all -- you'll be fine. Seriously? The best traders that I know have never ever called themselves an "expert." No profitable, good trader would ever tell anyone to ignore protecting their capital....unless of course they were talking to someone like you that's an expert of course.Quote from Lucias: "...Don't worry about protecting your capital..."
6th - If you're not advertising to sell a trading system...then I stand corrected. Fair enough.
Seriously...this is really dumb. Most of what you're saying is just making a better case for why no one should pay any attention to what you have to say. Hopefully you can sell your blog and fund your trading account.
Why is being deliberately condescending a bad thing? Maybe it's just me, but I don't think that's the best way to help a new trader. Generally speaking, I don't know of anyone that appreciates being spoken to in a condescending way for no reason whatsoever....but of course since you're an expert I guess that gives you a little bit more room to be pretentious and condescending.Quote from Lucias:
>Why would he want to be trained by you? Why would anyone? You've been condescending and your posts are >about as esoteric and nonsensical as Jack Hershey's posts...maybe worse than his because of the
Why do you feel that is a bad thing?
Lucias,
Are you or are you not trading real money?
I have sim traded for two days, and traded for real for a half a day, and already I recognize that no amount of sim trading provides you with an accurate picture of any strategy you might think you have.
Here's a simple example of what I am talking about: When I place a trade in sim mode it goes through immediately; when I do the same live, it often doesn't go through immediately. In the meantime, the price has already changed. That little change in price is enough to sink any theoretical strategy you might have.
If you are not trading real money, than you are not the expert you think you are.
I did not claim to know more about trading than you, however because of my age and years watching the market I might have stronger macro ( big picture ) understanding of the markets. That's all I meant by that earlier statement.
Are you or are you not trading real money?
I have sim traded for two days, and traded for real for a half a day, and already I recognize that no amount of sim trading provides you with an accurate picture of any strategy you might think you have.
Here's a simple example of what I am talking about: When I place a trade in sim mode it goes through immediately; when I do the same live, it often doesn't go through immediately. In the meantime, the price has already changed. That little change in price is enough to sink any theoretical strategy you might have.
If you are not trading real money, than you are not the expert you think you are.
I did not claim to know more about trading than you, however because of my age and years watching the market I might have stronger macro ( big picture ) understanding of the markets. That's all I meant by that earlier statement.
I don't agree Roark. The bid/offer can't be represented accurately in sim mode. It wouldn't be fair if were accurate because it would screw up the pricing for everyone who was trading live. There must be 100s of thousands of people around using sim applications; imagine if they were all allowed to directly effect the bid/offer process.