Stupidist decision I ever made.

Quote from spect8or:

..."choosing to daytrade for a living"...
Remove the label and you might get somewhere. As soon as you let yourself be pigeon-holed, when the markets change you will get stuck, or you were never able to get started in the first place.

"What we call the beginning is often the end. And to make an end is to make a beginning. The end is where we start from." - T.S. Eliot

nitro
 
I'll bet the percentage of losers is higher than that.

JB

Quote from pepper_john:

Is it true that 70 % of day traders loss money???

On the other hand, 30 % of day traders make money, possibly from those losers.
 
Quote from Trend Fader:

I dont daytrade for a living.. I honestly tried it for a while and I wasnt making enough money worthy of taking the huge risks. If i have to put a huge amount of money on the line to make a few cents on a stock its not worth the real risk involved. Even during the day there are news pops, specialist rip offs... horrible fills that u have to deal with. Also its extremely physically demanding and u have to be on your toes from the open till the close. Very easy to burn yourself out after a few years. Bottom line in the long run its not worth it for me.

Since I hate taking big risk.. I never swing trade stocks.. preferably ETF's (except i play leader stocks in industries that have no ETF like NEM for Gold and TOL for homebuilders) . This eliminates all the bullshit upgrades, news releases, earnings that relates to company specific risk. Once in a while I fire off a intraday trade because I see a great risk to reward but I dont make a living off those profits.

I love playing sectors and specifically the IWM. I think the Russell is the smoothest index around and its liquidity is great. My bread and butter is fading extreme moves alongside the bias I have for that particular market. For example since this Jan. I have been fading every rally in the IWM and it has been working.. will continue doing it until my bias changes or it just stops working.

To answer your question I think there is a good reason why many people prefer daytrading as to holding for multi day/weeks. Most daytraders use 2 different methods... looking at charts/indicators and feeling the tape. If u think about it anyone can convince themselves that they can do this successfully. When it comes to longer term trading u have to understand fundemental trends and what catalysts are affecting a particular market. To me that is what draws the line.

Your avg. poster on ET does not care for fundementals nor do they know whats going on behind the numbers of the US and world economic engine. That involves a completely different type of analysis called fundemental ( catalyst) analysis... in most cases u need above average brains for this type of understanding.

Thats how longer term traders like Jim Rogers, Buffet, Soros make killings. They know whats going in that particluat market and are sure they are on the right side of the trend.. then their traders just play the pullbacks and breakouts but their difference is that they have a distinct edge over longer term trend analysis.

For that you need smart brains and a whole lesson in fundementals. You dont have to be a genious or have a high IQ.. but I believe u have to do as much research as possble. Its not taught in a seminars or trading books because the world economy always changes.. and u have to identify different cycles all the time.

To give u a real example. SAC combines traders with analysts for every single sector of the market. I believe that is the most strategic and profitable trading in the world. WHen u got guys that can read the tape well and are pretty good at moving size.. and u combine that will solid longer term fundemental analysis u are getting the best of the best. For example.. assuming u are a chip analyst right now and every piece of data u have is pointing to a huge rebound in the chip market.. if u work with a seasoned trader they usually know how to setup the trades with good timing and at great risk to reward levels... so although your fundemental timing might not be perfect.. when the big rebound does come.. u will be setup to milk the trend. Your average person does not have all those abilities and skills that are required. Very few people in the world can do this succesfully.. and the ones that can are the ones that make millions aka many of the Market Wizards like PTJ, Rogers, Kovner, many others etc.

You dont have to be as gifted or talented as some of them are.. but if u can combine fundementals and technicals with a decent degree of an edge.. u can make more $ than any daytrader can imagine. This requires a tremendous amount of hard work and dedication as is simply more than reading a chart or indicator.. experience is also essential. What it takes to really succeed in my opinion is everything u cant learn in a seminar, packaged CD rom manual, or read in a trading book.


--MIKE

good post... TF


IcE
:cool:
 
Quote from pepper_john:

Is it true that 70 % of day traders loss money???

On the other hand, 30 % of day traders make money, possibly from those losers.

Keep in mind that 4 out of 5 small businesses fail in the United States during their initial years of operations. This statistic is no different for traders who are effectively a small business. Some past studies have indicated that 10-20% of traders are at least moderately profitable. This means that 80-90% lose money.

Trading "businesses" fail for the same reasons as other endeavors... namely:

- Lack of adequate capitalization (Burning through your cash / account)

- Lack of business planning (no systematic trading plan)

- Improper skill set of the owners (the trader needs more education to be successful).


Keep it all in mind....

- Greg
 
You could easily substitute the title of why face off with the odds in daytrading to: why face off with the odds with respect to possible success...applicable to "all small entrepreneurial businesses in general"...all professional actors..sports....etc..etc...

The masses in each category mostly speak about:

coulda...shouda...woulda...only if.....etc..etc...


Thank goodness some people are crazy enough to try...

or else no music..movies..hedge fund winners....football...etc....

At least you are not restricted from trying..albeit the probabilities stack up like a horse race...
 
Quote from drprotrader:

You could easily substitute the title of why face off with the odds in daytrading to: why face off with the odds with respect to possible success...applicable to "all small entrepreneurial businesses in general"...all professional actors..sports....etc..etc...

The masses in each category mostly speak about:

coulda...shouda...woulda...only if.....etc..etc...


Thank goodness some people are crazy enough to try...

or else no music..movies..hedge fund winners....football...etc....

At least you are not restricted from trying..albeit the probabilities stack up like a horse race...

but imho I think more people put in the work and preparation in other businesses/sports and the like.. and pay their dues.. whereas those attracted to the fast buck image of day trading... do not!

I base this partly upon personal anecdotal insight gathered from many conversations through the years with guys who were doing well in their professions/businessess, etc. but perceived that trading (as I was engaged in) would afford them a better lifestyle than facing a drive/commute to work/inter-office politics and the like... and that this "work" would be less... in their minds.

One guy stands out...... on a New years' Eve he was at my house, and asked if I (anyone) could trade from Key West or any 'exotic' locale in the world with access. I said sure, and he was envious that he had to actually work for a living (advertising dept. at the Chicago Tribune making over 190K per year + benefits) when he apparently perceived himself lying on a beach... after trading a few hours and making some fast money! He didn't once mention the risks of loss in any conversation about trading for a living (of which we had several). :p

IcE
:cool:
 
Quote from pepper_john:

Is it true that 70 % of day traders loss money???

On the other hand, 30 % of day traders make money, possibly from those losers.

If 70% lose money,perhaps they should just start doing the opposite(going long when they think they should go short and going short when they think they should go long).Patience is another good virtue to possess when it comes to trading.Searching for perfect setups will lead to better results than overtrading and just paying commissions.
 
Quote from iceman1:

but imho I think more people put in the work and preparation in other businesses/sports and the like.. and pay their dues.. whereas those attracted to the fast buck image of day trading... do not!

True. Great article today on franchises and how much one can earn and what they need to invest:

http://money.cnn.com/2004/04/29/pf/howmuchfranchise/index.htm

The revenue figures displayed in this article's chart are BEFORE rent, labor costs, taxes, and other expenses. If you remove rent and labor from these gross estimates your remaining net is not going to be a slam dunk.

Even the smallest franchise would receive more thought and prep than most daytraders starting out give trading.
 
There is no way you will ever be a successful trader with that attitude.

Yes, I'm one of the rare traders you wrote about in your post. There are many more out there that make money on a better than average day.
 
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