Stupidist decision I ever made.

Quote from Trend Fader:

Bro you are right on the money. Excellent post.

Its funny how people think that traders should make X amount of money every week or month. To me it all depends on the opportunity at hand. I dont think of it in terms of getting a pay check every month.. sometimes I can place 5 trades the whole month and the next month i'll do 50. It all comes down to how many times I see a worthy opportunity to take a risk.


--MIKE
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Nonsense.

The group I started under was co-headed by a trader who in 2 year had only 3 down days. He would consistently make an average of 1000 bucks a day. Period. Granted it was due to bullets but I'm sure he can and probably did adjust.
There was another trader who went to a diff prop firm but is good friends with a good friend of mine. I've talked to him here and there. He is almost as consistent and will bring in 6-7k a month year after year.

Running any business is the same exact thing. If you cannot realize that the risks of starting up a business are the same, you are a fool. You never know what can happen. Your loans might get called on, your receivables might default at an extreme rate, a big corporate may move in and steal ur business, the nearby locality may take a big economic hit (like a plant closing down). It happens everyday and will continue to happen.

Anyone who has worked in the restaurant business and actually taken and interest and observed how it works will realize how risky any business venture can be.

In conclusion, I am not at all surprised at the agreement the original post received. It fully confirms why the failure rate is 90% plus. Good luck to those, you will actually need it.
 
Quote from Mecro:

Nonsense.


Running any business is the same exact thing. If you cannot realize that the risks of starting up a business are the same, you are a fool. You never know what can happen. Your loans might get called on, your receivables might default at an extreme rate, a big corporate may move in and steal ur business, the nearby locality may take a big economic hit (like a plant closing down). It happens everyday and will continue to happen.
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http://www.elitetrader.com/tr/

Good read.
 
Quote from Mecro:

Nonsense.

The group I started under was co-headed by a trader who in 2 year had only 3 down days. He would consistently make an average of 1000 bucks a day. Period. Granted it was due to bullets but I'm sure he can and probably did adjust.
There was another trader who went to a diff prop firm but is good friends with a good friend of mine. I've talked to him here and there. He is almost as consistent and will bring in 6-7k a month year after year.

Running any business is the same exact thing. If you cannot realize that the risks of starting up a business are the same, you are a fool. You never know what can happen. Your loans might get called on, your receivables might default at an extreme rate, a big corporate may move in and steal ur business, the nearby locality may take a big economic hit (like a plant closing down). It happens everyday and will continue to happen.

Anyone who has worked in the restaurant business and actually taken and interest and observed how it works will realize how risky any business venture can be.

In conclusion, I am not at all surprised at the agreement the original post received. It fully confirms why the failure rate is 90% plus. Good luck to those, you will actually need it.
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What firm did you work for? Sounds like the guy I started under.
 
Quote from spect8or:

There have been quite a few, so it wasn't easy to choose, but I'd have to go with "choosing to daytrade for a living".

This is an incredibly stupid decision to make. The odds of success in daytrading for a living (its time intensive nature pretty much means you'll have to do it for a living) are so stacked against you it's not funny.

I am no idiot, mind you; far from it. I even made money one year. Not your "$2000/day avg", not even $500, but an income that I'm unlikely to see working for a wage for a while yet.

Still, as the bible says, "..time and chance happen to them all".

I don't care what anyone says, daytrading for a living is lousy deal whatever way you cut it. Yeah, sure, there are some people that can make money at it, year after year after year, but they are raaaaaaare, and for all intents and purposes, you won't be one of them. Not a pretty picture, I know. And of those that are, it's a statistical certainty that some of them are by virtue of luck alone; markets may be a lot less random than academics believe, but they're a lot more random than traders believe.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not railing against all trading. Not at all. I still maintain a great interest in the markets. Only that choosing to make your livelihood from trading the markets is, for the vast majority of people, about as bad a career move as you can make.
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Spect8or;


Good points.


Any business averages 80% failure 20% suceed.

Agree trading , especially bear-downtrends,surely is one of the more difficult businesses ;
Also agree daytrading surely is one of the more difficult timeframes.

Wouldnt call intraday moves random moves;
but more difficult especially if you dont have a
fast typing personality or desire to fast trade like me .

Disagree that luck has much to do with focused trading;
What you call luck i call a small sample-John Henry told the Boston Globe.


Sure you have people selling off on false CNBC lies about Greenspan health on 5 minute charts.

Also agree with your'' time & chance happen '' quote, but diligent work &
diligent wisdom
is mentioned much more.


In all labor there is profit-Solomon,trader king
 
I don't buy into the business analogy for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, if you look at the entrants into business (and I have known quite a few) they are, in my experience, actually a lot less knowledgeable about the requirements for success in business than entrants to trading. I'm talking about your average small (very) business here. I suspect that if you took those who were highly prepared for entrance into business -- knows (and can 'do') customer service and salesmanship; has strong leadership/management skill; knows the 'numbers' as they relate to his field; and can manage cashflows -- and compared him to someone making a highly prepared entrance into day trading, I'd bet on the long term success of the businessman every time.

Secondly, in business, whether you fail or not, you walk away with valuable experience. And that experience will still be valuable the next time you try a business. Or even if you don't try a business, you still walk away with marketable skills and experience. In trading, it's all about 'edge'/strategy. Soon as that stops working you can have the best money management system devised, but if you don't find another 'edge', or if you run out of money before the market changes enough so that your 'edge' starts working again, you're out cold. And what do you walk away with? Sure, you've learnt to cut losses and manage your money, but what else? Very little. Give me the former any day.

Thirdly, as a day trader you really are living on the razor's edge. There is no "I made it!" until you quit. (And, just so you know, I was smart enough to get out while I still had something to show for my efforts, so I guess I count as a 'success'?) I just laugh when I hear "Marty sitting next to me makes $10,000 every month like clockwork". Big deal! It doesn't mean jack shit. That can all change -- and usually does, you'd better believe it -- at any moment. Then where's Marty? Probably posting on ET threads like "Stupidist decision I ever made" saying, "too true kiddo, too true". Of course, Joe with the booming cafe on the boardwalk faces the same threat whenever the local steel mill closes down or a new complex is built down at the gentrified docklands, but whereas 'I'm out on the street' changes in the trading landscape occur every 1-2 years, changes of similar magnitude in the economic landscape, happen far less frequently. But keep in mind that 'making it big in business' usually does 'set you up for life' (Joe's opened another cafe across town or he's in on that new complex going up at the docklands) much more than 'making it big in day trading' does.
 
Quote from spect8or:

In trading, it's all about 'edge'/strategy. Soon as that stops working you can have the best money management system devised, but if you don't find another 'edge', or if you run out of money before the market changes enough so that your 'edge' starts working again, you're out cold.

[/B]
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This brings up one thought on "Trader Development"... You always have to be one step ahead, probing for market inefficiency, and finding your next "edge" in order to be successful long-term in the market as a trader. There is a continual education process involved. At some point your current "edge" will be arb'ed out of the market and you will have to be prepared with a new "system" to be successful.

- Greg
 
True, and if you're a day trader, when exactly do you think you're going to have the time to do all that and enjoy the vaunted 'freedom' the day trading lifestyle offers.
 
Quote from spect8or:

True, and if you're a day trader, when exactly do you think you're going to have the time to do all that and enjoy the vaunted 'freedom' the day trading lifestyle offers.
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Most of the Traders that I know who are successful work 70+ hours per week and are very focused. Most do not enjoy a "vaunted freedom that the day trading lifestyle offers" and work much harder then most people who work for "corporate America".

Keep in mind that I am a programmer... rather than a trader.

- Greg
 
Quote from axeman:

Id rather work 70 hours a week at something I love
than 40 at something I don't.

peace

axeman
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WELL SPOKEN !

To be truly successful at anything requires a lot of hard work and time..... you don't magically read a few books, order a cd or two, and then suddenly become a hugely profitable trader over the long run while only "working" 10 hours per week.
 
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