Stronger growth rates under Democratic administrations

[saliva]

Quote from slapshot:

That's exactly the point - look how terrible things are now compared to 2 years ago:

-housing market destroyed
-banking system destroyed
-unemployment rising
-earnings down everywhere
-dollar very weak
-inflation / oil

Who is now in charge of Senate Banking and most other relevant committes that actually make fiscal policy? The Dems.

Who has failed in controlling all of the above as they promised to get elected back to the majority in Congress? The Dems.

Geezus, don't tell me you don't know the reason behind the housing bust.

Don't tell me you don't already know that the current banking system that funded bogus mortgate applications was a fraud to begin with.

Don't tell me your ignorance keeps you from seeing that workers are getting axed largely due to these idiot banking firms.

Don't tell me earnings are down because you refuse to see that the inflation is skyrocketing as a result of artificially low interest rate that got us into this mess in the first place.

Don't tell me dollar is weak just because the Dems are in control. It's low because thanks to our patron saints, Bernie and Paulie, who are happy not only to lower the interest rates but keep infusing cash into the system.

Don't tell me...what? Oil is directly tied to the rate of inflation and inflation is sadly tied to the greenback.

You seem to like sticking your head where the sun don't shine. Dems inherited what Republicans created.

 

[cuz69]

Quote from saliva:

Where the hell you been for the last 8 years? The Dems came to control both house and senate only within the last 2 years, and that's because the public was so goddamn sick and disgusted of Bush. Get your facts straight before deciding to take the role of an arbitrator!

I am not sure but I think you totally misunderstood my point or maybe I din't convey it correctly?

 

[jonbig04]

Quote from thn5625:

Deregulation isnt the answer. I agree. The danger is thinking the answer to the subprime woe is to start regulating the economy. Its never either or in the markets.

First, the subprime woes do not mean we go away from a free market and into a regulated market. You must realize the other extreme is a "controlled economy".

Second, you have to agree that in principle, entrepreneurialship is the cornerstone of economic policy.

Now that being said, I would not have a 100% free market. Also, the markets that we are talking about (housing) are no where deregulated. Its a very very regulated market. The answer is tricky but lets say you go to Italy and go to one of the outdoor food markets and you barter with the merchants. Everyone is happy until a bunch of crooks go in and plunder some goods while no one is watching. Do you now say there will no longer be a market place and replace it with a govt run shop that can sell you whatever they think you should have? Probably not. Instead of doing that, the Italian govt should facilitate it better by perhaps having a forceful presense to deter and punish anyone who thinks they can steal. In the same way, a free market isnt truly free unless the govt protects its integrity/structure. The subprime mess had to do with thieves, not a free economy. It had to do with the govt not placing enough resources to monitor the threats to the free market (thieves).

In a free market society, the govt's role is not to make the transactions but to facilitate them and to have a strong enough presence to deter would be thieves.

I agree. I do not endorse a "controlled economy". Not at all. I just have a hard time seeing someone like Mccain NOT vetoing a bill that will spend money by regulating certain aspects of the free market. You hit it on the head when you say the market isn't truly free unless the gov't is somewhat involved.

About the housing markets, no they aren't deregulated. We have RESPA, HUD, etc, however consider this. At 18 years old ( approx 3 years ago) I was able to start my own mortgage company and boker millions of dollars in loans per year. I had no prior experience and could have ripped off dozens of people. I didn't, and I'm glad I got to do it, but being in the industry I got to see what really goes on. Is i corrupt? I wouldnt go that far, but if you had a pulse, I could get you a loan. Why? Not because I was a trickster or a liar, like I said I didn't know enough to be either, but because the lenders did not care. I would say to my account executives that I had a loan that didnt match their guidelines. "What??" They would say. "Send it to me, I will push it through". And they did. The reason they were able to push it through is because they were selling the loans on the secondary market. They only held the loans and the risk for a month, if that. Sometimes I would get to the closing table and the loan would already be sold and the docs the customers would sign would be of a different company. Anyways because wall street was buying up so much paper with no regard to risk managment and bond insurers were insuring, and S&P was rating, the whole thing was like a house of cards. The companies that were leveraged 50/1 ( thats like going to the bank and getting a loan for $250,000 on $5,000 in collateral) were making boatloads until it all came down. When that happened the greed of few had a negative affect on our entire economy.

Once again, I agree with what you say and I am a free market guy, but we have to be ale to prevent things like this from happening. Surely we can maintain a sense of order (for at least a while) without stifling the entreprenurial spirit. Thats my take. I'm not saying its an easy task, far from it.

 

[cuz69]

Quote from saliva:

Where the hell you been for the last 8 years? The Dems came to control both house and senate only within the last 2 years, and that's because the public was so goddamn sick and disgusted of Bush. Get your facts straight before deciding to take the role of an arbitrator!

Oh by the way, I have been in Alaska for the past 8 yrs, fishing with Sarah and shooting moose... Damn those moose burgers are good.

 

[saliva]

Quote from jonbig04:

Interesting. The senate votes what? Probably around 100 times per month. He's been in office for just under 4 years...suddenly 130 doesn't seem like that large of a number. I also wonder how many times other senators, including mccain only voted "present".

Why can't you all see that ridiculous semi-facts like that are useless. Yet you argue over them as if they could possibly shed some light on how a senator would act a potential president. They can't. Do the research. Don't be liberal or conservative, find the facts. Then make up your mind. This will be the first year I can vote, already I'm appalled by the process.

Politics seems to be one of the only areas in which Americans decide what they are and where they stand, and then attempt to find the fact to justify their decision. Instead of the far more logical and far more common way of looking at the facts and then deciding.

Gosh, this shit is ridiculous. Im running for office.

Perhaps you're too young to remember, but it was the same people like yourself who kept on giving credit to Bush & Co. Now you brush away your idol as if the past 8 years never happened. What facts are there to uncover? More than few of us lived through it and we're fucking sick of it!

So quit patronizing!

 

[jonbig04]

Quote from saliva:

Perhaps you're too young to remember, but it was the same people like yourself who kept on giving credit to Bush & Co. Now you brush away your idol as if the past 8 years never happened. What facts are there to uncover? More than few of us lived through it and we're fucking sick of it!

So quit patronizing!

Wha?

My Idol? Bush really isn't my idol. And I was too young to vote in the last election. I'm actually a registered dem, but I guess my pro-bush comments threw you off?

We don't all have a partisan mind. I look at facts and the current situation, alien though it may be to you.

As for the rest of your post, well I really dont know what your talking about. You sound like bush

 

[Gringinho]

Many people are "information challenged" and have a lack of knowledge. This might be because of lack of time, opportunity, disabilities or other deficiencies.

That doesn't stop people from having an opinion, though - and they still get to vote. The results are "interesting".

 

[sg20]

Quote from Gringinho:

Many people are "information challenged" and have a lack of knowledge. This might be because of lack of time, opportunity, disabilities or other deficiencies.

That doesn't stop people from having an opinion, though - and they still get to vote. The results are "interesting".

...care to elaborate?

 

[jonbig04]

Quote from Gringinho:

Many people are "information challenged" and have a lack of knowledge. This might be because of lack of time, opportunity, disabilities or other deficiencies.

That doesn't stop people from having an opinion, though - and they still get to vote. The results are "interesting".

lol yea.

there is no excuse for it in this day and age either.

 

[saliva]

Quote from jonbig04:

We don't all have a partisan mind. I look at facts and the current situation, alien though it may be to you.

Just what facts do you have in mind that I'm so intellectually challenged to have incorrectly regurgitated? Why don't you spit out some concrete facts yourself for me to chew on instead of exercising such useless mental masturbation?

Quote from Gringinho:

Many people are "information challenged" and have a lack of knowledge. This might be because of lack of time, opportunity, disabilities or other deficiencies.

That doesn't stop people from having an opinion, though - and they still get to vote. The results are "interesting".

Touché.