Ok Bryan and RS7, you people are losing it. You have no real argument and you are dropping down to the level of name calling. Your emotions have totally taken over.
strike on iraq
- Thread starter ElCubano
- Start date
Name calling? Show me where!!!!
Emotions? Show me where!!!!
We may have different opinions, different perspectives. But what are you talking about? I expressed mine, you expressed yours. Where, however, is this last statement coming from? Dropping down to a level? Are you just frustrated? Please explain.
Peace,
Rs7
I think when you recommend closing the thread, that is the spoil date...
Bryan Roberts
Guest
In an address recently in Florida, he warned his audience to watch out for the administration's civilian superhawks, most of whom avoided military service as best they could. ''If you ask me my opinion,'' said Zinni, referring to Iraq, ''Gen. (Brent) Scowcroft, Gen. (Colin) Powell, Gen. (Norman) Schwarzkopf and Gen. Zinni maybe all see this the same way. It might be interesting to wonder why all of the generals see it the same way, and all those (who) never fired a shot in anger (and) are really hellbent to go to war see it a different way.
''That's usually the way it is in history,'' he said.
Another veteran, Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb., who served in combat in Vietnam and now sits on the Foreign Relations Committee, was even more blunt. ''It is interesting to me that many of those who want to rush this country into war and think it would be so quick and easy don't know anything about war,'' he said. ''They come at it from an intellectual perspective vs. having sat in jungles or foxholes and watched their friends get their heads blown off.''
The problem is not new. More than 100 years ago, another battle-scarred soldier, Civil War Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman, observed: ''It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, more vengeance, more desolation.''
here's the link for the full article:
http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20020917/4453455s.htm
checkmate baby!!!
wow - that is a quite a statement, especially given that he's a Republican. he's right of course - it's easy to command 17 year old kids to their deaths from the luxury of a palace or senatorial chamber.
wasn't there a song or a quote along the lines of "if the politicians had to fight there'd be no war" - can't remember the exact words...
Bryan - thanks for the link. While that article is far from unbiased, it makes some great points. The hypocracy would be funny, if the subject weren't so serious...
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''We must take the battle to the enemy,'' he (Cheney) said of the war on terrorism. ''The single most important asset we have,'' he said, ''is the man or woman who steps forward and puts on the uniform of this great nation.''
But during the bloodiest years of the Vietnam War, Cheney decided against wearing that uniform. Instead, he used multiple deferments to avoid military service altogether. ''I had other priorities in the '60s than military service,''he once said.
What frightens many is the arrogance, naïveté and cavalier attitude toward war. ''The Army guys don't know anything,'' Perle told The Nation's David Corn earlier this year. With ''40,000 troops,'' he said, the United States could easily take over Iraq. ''We don't need anyone else.'' But by most other estimates, a minimum of 200,000 to 250,000 troops would be needed, plus the support of many allies.
Even among Republicans, the warfare between the veterans and non-vets can be intense. ''Maybe Mr. Perle would like to be in the first wave of those who go into Baghdad,'' Hagel, who came home from Vietnam with two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, told The New York Times.
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''We must take the battle to the enemy,'' he (Cheney) said of the war on terrorism. ''The single most important asset we have,'' he said, ''is the man or woman who steps forward and puts on the uniform of this great nation.''
But during the bloodiest years of the Vietnam War, Cheney decided against wearing that uniform. Instead, he used multiple deferments to avoid military service altogether. ''I had other priorities in the '60s than military service,''he once said.
What frightens many is the arrogance, naïveté and cavalier attitude toward war. ''The Army guys don't know anything,'' Perle told The Nation's David Corn earlier this year. With ''40,000 troops,'' he said, the United States could easily take over Iraq. ''We don't need anyone else.'' But by most other estimates, a minimum of 200,000 to 250,000 troops would be needed, plus the support of many allies.
Even among Republicans, the warfare between the veterans and non-vets can be intense. ''Maybe Mr. Perle would like to be in the first wave of those who go into Baghdad,'' Hagel, who came home from Vietnam with two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, told The New York Times.
Sounds familiar. Cream?
Then there was: (Jagger/Richard)
Memo from Turner
When the old men do the fighting
And the young men all look on
And of course,
Airplane, Cream, Doors, Dylan, Phil Ochs, Joan Baez, Country Joe and the Fish, John Lennon, and just about anyone who made music between 1965 and 1975. Wonder why?? How about 50,000+ American boys dead for no reason whatsoever.
(not counting Korea...another effective foray. NOT!)
But it was justified, 'cause we had the "domino theory". Now we have the Saddam "weapons theory". Prove a clear and present danger, and I myself will go and fight. If you can't prove it, don't send my sons.
How many of your friends, Dotslash, have died in war this year so far? Not enough I guess. Don't think the draft has gone away forever. There were no promises. If you are over 18, and and American citizen, you know that.
Peace,
Rs7
Bryan Roberts
Guest
"The best story concerns Rush Limbaugh, the ferociously bellicose radio personality, who allegedly had either "anal cysts" or an "ingrown hair follicle on his bottom". It is not my custom to mock others' ailments, but anyone who has listened to Limbaugh's programme can imagine the dripping scorn he would bring to the revelation that a prominent Democrat had skipped a war over something like that. Also, in his case, a pain in the arse is peculiarly appropriate. "
well i guess i'll be skipping dinner this evening.
well i guess i'll be skipping dinner this evening.