strike on iraq
- Thread starter ElCubano
- Start date
Moderator, do you realize, we've just wasted a good 5 or 6 pages on nothing but totally idiotic bantering here, I absolutely don't think that this is what this really important thread deserves, I wouldn't mind your deleting everything back to where the last substantial post was posted, I think page 117 118 or somewhere around there.
All you're doing, Buddy, is trying to make sure that there is enough BS between all the total crap you're kicking up and the last posting of any significance so that nobody, in your retarded opinion, is gonna go read that, right?
That's all you got up your sleeve, dirty tricks and perseverance beyond belief?
Hey, never underestimate a gunslinging redneck, right?
Moderator, do you realize, we've just wasted a good 5 or 6 pages on nothing but totally idiotic bantering here, I absolutely don't think that this is what this really important thread deserves, I wouldn't mind your deleting everything back to where the last substantial post was posted, I think page 117 / 118 or somewhere around there.
Who was that said that here, you're the QUEEN OF SPIN??
Cubano?
LOL, was he ever right, a REDNECK
QUEEN OF SPIN
LOL
How's the shooting going, you havin fun???
Damn, no blood, right?
Too bad.
Jeez, how sick can this get
Moderator, do you realize, we've just wasted a good 5 or 6 pages on nothing but totally idiotic bantering here, I absolutely don't think that this is what this really important thread deserves, I wouldn't mind your deleting everything back to where the last substantial post was posted, I think page 117 / 118 or somewhere around there.
Yeah, but that's all he CAN do, come up with sick and bloodthirsty crappyola.
Probably not his fault, but then, there you go. We gotta live with his crap
I have left all the pertinent information that I can not find counter information for listed here above. I will not waste time doing a cut and paste job either. For every piece of data that you can find I can find counter materials so we would just waste space arguing over who's experts are correct. So now I will respond to the part of your post that I find valuable:
Have a nice day!
LOL
Zero arguments FOR starting a war against our very good former ally Saddam.
Just like Junior.
Just why the world, apart from our poodles, is laughing about us and not giving us the respect we deserve.
Zero Arguments, Zero Facts, just Lotsa HYPE.
Exactly why we have been totally unable to build an international coalition this time around, totally unlike during the Gulf War, because nobody else is dumb enough to fall for our propaganda this time. Apart from our hyped up BS that unfortunately or maybe fortunately no one is falling for, we have zilch on offer, after all, in the hard facts department.
The international community is laughing at our "evidence", poodles apart, but of course so are our own people laughing at our evidence, see a link found here today:
Senior lawmakers from both parties -- including Sens. John McCain and Richard Durbin, and House Minority Whip Nancy Pelosi -- who have been given a peek at some of this latest evidence of Iraq's ability to unleash weapons of mass destruction on the world have reacted with yawns and shrugs. "I heard nothing that was new, compelling, or that I have not heard before," said House Democratic Caucus Chairman Robert Menendez, while McCain termed his top-secret Rumsfeld briefing "a joke."
http://www.ariannaonline.com/columns/files/092602.html
A War Waiting for a Pretext
A Persian Gulf War POW accuses the United States and Britain of being hypocritical about Saddam
http://www.msnbc.com/news/814085.asp?cp1=1
==========
Colonel David Hackworth author of his new best-selling "Steel My Soldiers' Hearts," "Price of Honor" and "About Face," has seen duty or reported as a sailor, soldier and military correspondent in nearly a dozen wars and conflicts â from the end of World War II to the recent fights against international terrorism.
Defending America: Will Congress blink again?
History has repeatedly shown that the military solution is the least-desirable way to resolve conflict. Smart leaders know that "supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting" â as Sun Tzu wrote years ago â and exhaust all other options before they unleash the dogs of war.
Instead, our president seems single-mindedly obsessed with attacking Iraq.
continued:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/a...RTICLE_ID=29035
==============
Brent Scowcroft, the former National Security Advisor, says a U.S. invasion of Iraq "could turn the whole region into a cauldron and, thus, destroy the war on terrorism."
Henry Kissinger says, "The notion of justified pre- emption runs counter to modern international law, which sanctions the use of force in self-defense only against actual -- not potential -- threats." Kissinger also says, "American military intervention in Iraq would be supported only grudgingly, if at all, by most European allies."
Senator Chuck Hagel (R-NE) says the CIA has "absolutely no evidence" that Iraq possesses or will soon possess nuclear weapons.
Dick Armey, the House (Republican) Majority Leader, says, "I don't believe that America will justifiably make an unprovoked attack on another nation." He also says, "It would not be consistent with what we have been as a nation or what we should be as a nation."
http://www.moveon.org/nowar/
Heck, even the fruitcake numero uno, Pat Buchanan, is against a war against Saddam.
****************
Case Dismissed
Anti-War Voices Can Trump Bush's Failed Iraq Policy
Our country is in serious trouble: increasingly isolated in the world, lied to by our government, in the thrall of a cabal of ideologically-driven hawks who have been on the wrong side of every major event in recent times. Even real conservatives --Â especially conservatives! --Â ought to be worried.
http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/6493
Zero arguments FOR starting a war against our very good former ally Saddam.
Just like Junior.
Just why the world, apart from our poodles, is laughing about us and not giving us the respect we deserve.
Zero Arguments, Zero Facts, just Lotsa HYPE.
Exactly why we have been totally unable to build an international coalition this time around, totally unlike during the Gulf War, because nobody else is dumb enough to fall for our propaganda this time. Apart from our hyped up BS that unfortunately or maybe fortunately no one is falling for, we have zilch on offer, after all, in the hard facts department.
The international community is laughing at our "evidence", poodles apart, but of course so are our own people laughing at our evidence, see a link found here today:
Senior lawmakers from both parties -- including Sens. John McCain and Richard Durbin, and House Minority Whip Nancy Pelosi -- who have been given a peek at some of this latest evidence of Iraq's ability to unleash weapons of mass destruction on the world have reacted with yawns and shrugs. "I heard nothing that was new, compelling, or that I have not heard before," said House Democratic Caucus Chairman Robert Menendez, while McCain termed his top-secret Rumsfeld briefing "a joke."
http://www.ariannaonline.com/columns/files/092602.html
A War Waiting for a Pretext
A Persian Gulf War POW accuses the United States and Britain of being hypocritical about Saddam
http://www.msnbc.com/news/814085.asp?cp1=1
==========
Colonel David Hackworth author of his new best-selling "Steel My Soldiers' Hearts," "Price of Honor" and "About Face," has seen duty or reported as a sailor, soldier and military correspondent in nearly a dozen wars and conflicts â from the end of World War II to the recent fights against international terrorism.
Defending America: Will Congress blink again?
History has repeatedly shown that the military solution is the least-desirable way to resolve conflict. Smart leaders know that "supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting" â as Sun Tzu wrote years ago â and exhaust all other options before they unleash the dogs of war.
Instead, our president seems single-mindedly obsessed with attacking Iraq.
continued:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/a...RTICLE_ID=29035
==============
Brent Scowcroft, the former National Security Advisor, says a U.S. invasion of Iraq "could turn the whole region into a cauldron and, thus, destroy the war on terrorism."
Henry Kissinger says, "The notion of justified pre- emption runs counter to modern international law, which sanctions the use of force in self-defense only against actual -- not potential -- threats." Kissinger also says, "American military intervention in Iraq would be supported only grudgingly, if at all, by most European allies."
Senator Chuck Hagel (R-NE) says the CIA has "absolutely no evidence" that Iraq possesses or will soon possess nuclear weapons.
Dick Armey, the House (Republican) Majority Leader, says, "I don't believe that America will justifiably make an unprovoked attack on another nation." He also says, "It would not be consistent with what we have been as a nation or what we should be as a nation."
http://www.moveon.org/nowar/
Heck, even the fruitcake numero uno, Pat Buchanan, is against a war against Saddam.
****************
Case Dismissed
Anti-War Voices Can Trump Bush's Failed Iraq Policy
Our country is in serious trouble: increasingly isolated in the world, lied to by our government, in the thrall of a cabal of ideologically-driven hawks who have been on the wrong side of every major event in recent times. Even real conservatives --Â especially conservatives! --Â ought to be worried.
http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/6493
This is a strange post. Let me start by saying I want no war, but if we commit I want it quick and decisive. That's all. I am tired of all the pussyfootin' around. All the let me look here, no there diplomacy that we have been engaged in. For ten years plus we have tried it YOUR way, and we are still playin' tag.
Now, you say $300 billion for this war. Hmm, the experts who do know more than you and I say it will cost about 9 billion per month. Based on your expert calcs, that means you see about a three year engagement of fighting at maximum capital output. Just the kind of playing that we usually engage in.
I don't agree with your timetable nor your premise so until you can explain what we'd be doing at 9 billion per month that would be a constant, I can't address your illogic. Oh, you're doing regular Washington math.
Take the actual number add 25% for overages then multiply the whole thing by a factor of two. Then spend about 40% more than that. Followed by the understood political posture of, "We'll blame the Republicans and get the taxpayers to cover it later." Don't just fault the war, check the true cost math! I think we should probably keep up with the real cost verses the projected numbers.
Pat Buchanan? Once again he is posturing for political mileage and TV face time. I'll just say this to end here.
In California an award was just made to a woman in her 80's who desired to smoke and has now contracted cancer. The jury awarded her $28 billion dollars for her decision. These are the same peoples who I am to now understand have a true grasp on the cost of things and will be concerned that a war with a WHOLE COUNTRY for a three year period costing $300 billion. It can easily be explained to them as the equivalent to the settlements for ten people smoking. I really don't think you need to worry about much about me my friend!
Canyon, you sound like a guy one can do business with.
So, no war cost estimate has ever proven accurate, so lets not fiddle around with numbers, they'll always be way higher than sold to the public, otherwise the public would never buy.
Sorta like any public venture, where you'll always get conned.
We will, that is. We the tax payers.
Plus, don't forget, unlike the Gulf War where we had allies and a huge truly international coalition standing firmly behind us, we'll be paying this bill pretty much ourselves, hey, you got money to waste on a big historical joke, taking down our own former big time ally whom we supplied with biological weapons and watched him kill Kurds with, and whom we supported during the war he started against Iran with intelligence briefings about Iranian movements and positions et al? Such a big time former ally is suddenly and with no reason, declared an enemy of the people?
I mean, gimme a break, no way would a dictator, living the great life, with dozens of palaces, go attack the only power that has the might to take him out, hey, the guy is sick, but not stupid, he's enjoying his life. He went after Iran with our support, he went after his Kurds with our support and with our biological weapons, he thought we wouldn't mind him going after Kuweit, that was a mistake, but that was all regional power play, why the heck would such a power hungry thug go about destroying his power basis by ever supporting terrorists that are after us or by by starting a direct attack?
He wouldn't, would he.
Would you, if you were living his life?
Whatever, take the 9 billion/month, and you'll come up with at least 1oo billion we could have put to better use. Even 1 billion wasted would be 1 billion too many, also factoring in the lives of American SOLDIERS who have better things to do than fight PROXY WARS for the Bush family, trying to detract from national problems or just on a private vengeance trip, whatever.
The main thing here is, we're talking about lives here.
Remember Vietnam?
Another totally dumb war they tried to sell us on?
And how many were killed or maimed in that war?
It even took em 20!!!!! years to put up a decent memorial, for cryin out loud.
Who the hell needs another equally useless war where we are just messin up another generation for good??
Just one American life wasted on a senseless war is one life too many.
Always has been, always will be. Although our crooks in DC will always try and hype up a different picture, Korea, Vietnam, Guatemala, and so on and so forth.
See, I've been posted abroad a lot as an I-Banker, and I've seen lotsa countries where, totally unlike the USA, basÃc benefits aren't a problem, where we don't have every 4th kid growing up in poverty, and believe you me, poverty in the US is different and way worse than poverty in many OECD countries I've seen, anyway, where the infrastructure is great, where people have great education benefits, social security including medical insurance and all, and where societies still manage to generate lotsa millionaires, and even billionaires in usd.
Just give me one single reason we need to take on a Goon we established, who ain't threatening no one, and who has dozens of colleagues we also established, but where no one is complainin'.
And where we sure have better business to take care of, like our country, our economy, and fightin' terrorism.