Strength training with new 3/7 method gives superior results

[Frederick Foresight]

I think the main rationale is getting extra reps (volume) for minimal fatigue.

But doesn't that sound like junk volume? What is there to adapt to, if the effort induces minimal fatigue?

Also, unless it was ineptly designed, it seems to me that the study might have been contrived to reach a desired conclusion. From what Baron reported in his first post, no reference appears to be made regarding the level of intensity as it relates to how close the sets came to failure in either group.

The control group did 6 sets of 8 reps with 2 minutes rest between sets using the same weight. If they were able to do the same number of reps with the same weight on the last set as the first, then the first several sets were warm-ups and the weight was too light. The 3/7 method was obviously more intense because there was less rest, only 15 seconds, between "setlets." So while it was fairly easy to do the first few setlets of 3, 4, and 5 reps, the intensity ratcheted upwards with the last setlets because of the short 15-second rest between them. Meanwhile the control group was yawning with 2-minute rest between sets of underweighted exercise.

I could be wrong, but I'd like someone to explain why.

 

[Frederick Foresight]

Tsatsouline and Dan Johns like 3 clusters (2-3-5-10-2-3-5-10-2-3-5-10) for drug-free athletes seeking hypertrophy. It's certainly similar training to the 3/7 method and interesting to me to see the strategies padded out a bit.

This excerpt is from the second link I posted earlier:

What Does This Mean for You?
If you want to gain muscle and strength as quickly as possible, then you want to rest at least three minutes between sets of heavy, compound exercises.

The main takeaway of this study was that resting more between sets trumped resting less between sets for muscle growth, strength gain, and muscular endurance.

Although this was just one study, a review study published in the journal Sports Medicine by two of this study’s authors concluded the same thing:

If you want to get big and strong as fast as possible, rest more between sets, not less.

At this point you may be thinking, “I barely have time to work out as it is, how am I supposed to make more time to rest between sets?”

Here’s the solution:

Do fewer sets and exercises, use heavier weights, and use the extra time to rest longer between sets.

You don’t necessarily have to rest exactly three minutes between every set to get bigger and stronger, but you should generally rest as long as you need in order to give your best effort on every set.

This may sound counterintuitive at first, but this “quality over quantity” approach is not only well-supported scientifically, it’s also helped thousands of people gain strength and muscle as fast as possible.

Thoughts?

 

[Billy Robinson]

The gym was quite busy tonight and we were annoying people with sitting on various machines and benches for what looked like 5 sets each without budging. And the stop watch clicking had started getting tedious.

I feel the Belgian study was flawed because the stunning results, I recall, were for one exercise / body part! What is the full body dose for this approach?

I'll return to my HST system that's proven itself to me for long term hypertrophy (2 week blocks of 15 reps, then 12 or 10, 8 etc. working down to heavy 5's. And backing off to 15 reps whenever the joints are sore). I just like the ongoing structured variety.

 

[Baron]

So if I'm understanding this correctly, this method is only applied to one or two particular exercises during a broader routine? I can't imagine doing this with every single movement in my full body workout.

I think this method is way more suited to a split routine than a whole body routine. You'd be in the gym for hours trying to use it on every body part within a whole body workout.

 

[Frederick Foresight]

I'll return to my HST system that's proven itself to me for long term hypertrophy (2 week blocks of 15 reps, then 12 or 10, 8 etc. working down to heavy 5's. And backing off to 15 reps whenever the joints are sore). I just like the ongoing structured variety.

Just to be clear, is that 2 sets per exercise, and failure only on one of the 2-week blocks?

 

[Billy Robinson]

People do HST differently, it's a set of principles. But after the strategic deconditioning ("softening up" layoff) I increase my sets, 2 x 15 in the first two weeks up to 4 x 8 towards the end of the cycle. I build up my fitness, it's wave / cyclic type of training. This is the best workout I've ever done and gets my arms commented on. 15 total sets on biceps in a week really isn't much by non-HIT standards.

I end up doing 32 work sets @ 8 reps (warm-up sets so 37 sets full body workout) and the final two weeks is very hard. Failure isn't a concept I'm using but obviously towards the end of each two week mesocycle I'm approaching 100%8RM weights. But I complete repetitions rather than fail in a repetition.

I think of my training like a boxer doing his 6(-8) week training camp. I insist on full body workouts because I just don't feel fit doing splits.

 

[Billy Robinson]

What sets and frequency are you using on your HIT protocols.

 

[Frederick Foresight]

People do HST differently, it's a set of principles. But after the strategic deconditioning ("softening up" layoff) I increase my sets, 2 x 15 in the first two weeks up to 4 x 8 towards the end of the cycle. I build up my fitness, it's wave / cyclic type of training. This is the best workout I've ever done and gets my arms commented on. 15 total sets on biceps in a week really isn't much by non-HIT standards.

I end up doing 32 work sets @ 8 reps (warm-up sets so 37 sets full body workout) and the final two weeks is very hard. Failure isn't a concept I'm using but obviously towards the end of each two week mesocycle I'm approaching 100%8RM weights. But I complete repetitions rather than fail in a repetition.

I think of my training like a boxer doing his 6(-8) week training camp. I insist on full body workouts because I just don't feel fit doing splits.

I would think that 15 total sets per week just for biceps is a lot of volume by any standard. Even when I was in the volume camp, I don't recall doing that many. When I was doing an ABA/BAB split, working out 3 days a week, I did maybe 8 sets or so for biceps per workout, but that averaged to 12 sets per week. Admittedly, I had gotten pretty good results, but I was younger then; I think that might also have had something to do with it. (Might the results have been despite the volume?)

Speaking of arm exercises, what do you think of the considerable amount of research that has concluded that single joint exercises do not add to either strength or size when compound work is done properly? Please refer to my posts below and the links therein:

Well, it's probably not because of the exclusion of upper body single joint (isolation) exercises. A look at 23 studies on the subject:

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ti-Joint_Exercises_during_Resistance_Training

(I've already reported on this study a while back: https://www.elitetrader.com/et/thre...d-losing-fat-2015.292625/page-84#post-4401254 )

Here are a couple of others, the first looking at untrained young men and the second at trained women:

https://www.researchgate.net/public...trength_and_hypertrophy_in_untrained_subjects

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30487418

An article on the different studies, including one conducted on 17 national-level baseball players:

http://www.infinitelabs.com/single-joint-exercises-do-you-really-need-them/

One more for the road, this time looking at the addition of single joint exercises to multiple joint exercises in subjects using steroids and subjects not using steroids:

https://www.researchgate.net/public...pometric_changes_in_recreational_bodybuilders

...In conclusion, our study shows that the addition of SJ [single joint] exercises to MJ [multiple joint] exercises brings no additional benefit in terms of muscle performance and anthropometric [size] changes in trained men, either if they were using AAS [androgenic anabolic steroids] or not.

Of course, the drug users had better outcomes than did the non-users, but this was independent of the performance of SJ exercises.

Thoughts?

 

[Frederick Foresight]

What sets and frequency are you using on your HIT protocols.

Presently, and it took me a while to convince myself to get here from considerably higher volume, I only 9 total sets of resistance exercise per full-body workout: 2 sets of one compound exercise for upper legs, and one isolation set for calves; 6 compound exercises for upper body of one set each (3 pulling and 3 pushing).

All sets are taken to full positive static failure using good form and finishing with a very slow negative. I use a slow cadence of anywhere from 6 to 8 or so seconds per rep, and don't lock out at the top of pushing movements or hang on the pulling movements. Each set takes from about 60 to 100 or so seconds, depending on the exercise. Upon failure, I do a couple of forced reps on a couple of the exercises to accentuate the negative. This is followed by my ~HIIT cardio, which includes some ab work. I presently do this routine twice a week.

 

[luisHK]

On the other hand, other research suggests that longer rest periods are more conducive to muscle growth:


Also:

https://www.muscleforlife.com/how-long-to-rest-between-sets/

I'd still like to know who came up with the 3/7 method and how they arrived at it.

Fwiw I ve put on quite a bit of muscle doing low reps and long rests. I guess it gets more complicated when people also try to keep they bf low.
Pretty sure high trt dose helped lately but also put on quite a bit of muscle when coming back to the gym before that, at 44
Used to work out in a not too different way 17 years ago and was far less massive ( but pound for pound stronger). Overeating might be more important than rep range and rest time when it comes to muscle building, i definitely ate quite a bit less when younger
Btw I used to get shy when getting past the 7/8mns rest mark, usually when already tired from low rep squat or dl, but after hearing strong guys say they try to get 15mns rest between heavy sets if I have time I tend to take it