Stragedy break down:

Quote from oddiduro:



1. win rate too high
2. not enough data
3. too many trades
4. win loss ratio too low

1. win rate too high?

Not exactly. 60%+ system is not bad at all. And there are short-term systems that holds a > 50% that does consistantly for the ES and SP, for at least 10 years, I think it had a Sharpe of 1.7

2. not enough data? Yes, this is the biggest problem. 3 years of data is too small to make any conclusions.

3. too many trades? Ummm... interconnected to 1.

4. WL Ratio? Ummm... 1. + 3. = 4. :D

OK, to the point. System Development, just like a discretionary trade shows the character of the person as a trader. Oddi, obviously, has found a style of character which he wants to see in a system... which fits his trading tolerability.

The best way to find a system that works is to execute it. You might get a lot of hesitation at first but just put those trades in. You'll build a iron-glad discipline to follow them which makes it easier to trade and develop multiple strategy systems to make a good diversified portfolio of systems.

Regardless of what people think, a system trader, first has to develop a strong discipline to follow the system they decide to trade, no matter what. What most people do is they develop a system that makes consistant money (which is hard ) and also, to fit their style which they have no idea about.

The latter not needed. Until you can say, "I can trade any system of any kind without any personal conflict." , there's no point in developing any system because you'll be dealing with unneeded bias, rather than what you really have to deal with.
 
Quote from andrasnm:

Trying to develop systems for short term trading is futile in my opinion. The ideal time-frame for systems development is midrange/longer termtrend following. Examine your own need to trade short term and see if you could gradualte/move up from that.

You have some graduation to do on your own.

:D
 
Quote from amigasearch:

Hi. I am new to systems development, i started because I have ideas I would like to make mechanical. I have posted before with some questions, and now, i have others. I hope I can get other system developers opinions/experience.

I have a programmed system, which preforms very well for all of 2003 (backtest). 65/35 winners to losers, $12 avg. trade, 10 percents max DD and max DD avg. is around 4 percent.
I factor in commsisions, and the like. Trades on S&P emini, and does avg. 10 roundtrips a day (2000 trades a year).

This system, I know I can improve (adjusting stops and the like), but that is another thread.

The problem - 2002 backtest result is poor, very poor. dont have exact figures in front of me, but it is all negative (I know that max DD is 56 percent, and avg DD is high also). No profit at all.
2001 data holds up - it does not neccesarily go into the red, but it is not profitable at all. I would not trade it though.

I know, that at the least, I would have to identify what type of market my system seems to work in. The problem is, I have no experience and dont know which path to take to determine what type of market 01, 02, and 03 was.

I like the system, but of course, if I start to trade it, market can "turn into" (like a werewolf!) 02 and my system crashes.

I can always program something to identify what type of market I am in, and then, create systems for each type of market I identify, having that system "kick in" accordingly. Is this feasible thinking?

Ok - now, am i approaching this the right way? I mean should I even consider a system that is nice, but just for this year?
Help is needed.... Thanks to all.

So a simple answer...

1. Try to get as much data as you can. I prefer 20+ years but maybe 10 years with intraday, is probably good too. In another words, more is better.

2. Look at the Sharp Ratio. Sortino, etc. etc.

3. Unfilter all the setups. Is the system profitable just with the entry criteria? Then you've got something. Bad entries can be turned good through various setups but I don't deal with them, personally.

4. Fade. For example, there's 20 day breakouts (Turtle Entry) but this can also be a resistance ( Turtle Soup Entry ) . Develop systems for both separately. This helps you draw some valuable conclusion of the system you are developing.

Well, simply just be skeptic with what you develop.
 
Thanks for all the info. The "pattern" i have is well - usually, call direction of market.
I have been trying many "variations" of it, with many different results. The hardest part, I find, is exiting.
I am trying another method of this way, which does about 100 trades a year. It seems more conservative, and I dont get killed in 01 like I did before.
As for data, my reach only goes back to 99 - I bought minute data from ANF futures.
I guess I will need to find more data elsewhere.
 
Quote from WDGann:



1. win rate too high?

Not exactly. 60%+ system is not bad at all. And there are short-term systems that holds a > 50% that does consistantly for the ES and SP, for at least 10 years, I think it had a Sharpe of 1.7

2. not enough data? Yes, this is the biggest problem. 3 years of data is too small to make any conclusions.

3. too many trades? Ummm... interconnected to 1.

4. WL Ratio? Ummm... 1. + 3. = 4. :D

OK, to the point. System Development, just like a discretionary trade shows the character of the person as a trader. Oddi, obviously, has found a style of character which he wants to see in a system... which fits his trading tolerability.

The best way to find a system that works is to execute it. You might get a lot of hesitation at first but just put those trades in. You'll build a iron-glad discipline to follow them which makes it easier to trade and develop multiple strategy systems to make a good diversified portfolio of systems.

Regardless of what people think, a system trader, first has to develop a strong discipline to follow the system they decide to trade, no matter what. What most people do is they develop a system that makes consistant money (which is hard ) and also, to fit their style which they have no idea about.

The latter not needed. Until you can say, "I can trade any system of any kind without any personal conflict." , there's no point in developing any system because you'll be dealing with unneeded bias, rather than what you really have to deal with.

Good point you made.

Win loss ratio too high because > 50% means data is curve fit to the phase the sample data is representing. When the market rotates( which I am quite sure you know about, W.D. :D :cool: ), amiga is a dead duck. Ten years is a market rotation point, along with 5, 30, and 3 years, I think. Of course this has been only my backtesting experience.

Too many trades because of commisions. The more s/he trades, the less efficient the system.

We agree on data.

Based on my personality I reject all systems with win loss ratio < 3.

Speaking of rotations, the wheel says 11/30 is a turning point, based on all time high only.:) So Monday might be fun to watch.

Regards
Oddi
 
Quote from oddiduro:




Win loss ratio too high because > 50% means data is curve fit to the phase the sample data is representing. When the market rotates( which I am quite sure you know about, W.D. :D :cool: ), amiga is a dead duck. Ten years is a market rotation point, along with 5, 30, and 3 years, I think. Of course this has been only my backtesting experience.

> 50% win rate does not mean curve fit. Ever had a system that takes smaller wins and larger losses? Well it means a very high win rate. Does that some how equate to curve fit? If it does I must be in the dark.
 
Quote from t0yland:



> 50% win rate does not mean curve fit. Ever had a system that takes smaller wins and larger losses? Well it means a very high win rate. Does that some how equate to curve fit? If it does I must be in the dark.

Toyland, thank you...

You seemed to have read my post...

:D

Oddi, here's a good example of what human perception does. You only perceive and grasp what you want to...

Chart reading is the same thing.... Human perception and perspective defies the truth... what is important is to tune your mind towards an objective.

...

Don't you love trading? :D
 
Quote from WDGann:



Toyland, thank you...

You seemed to have read my post...

:D

Oddi, here's a good example of what human perception does. You only perceive and grasp what you want to...

Chart reading is the same thing.... Human perception and perspective defies the truth... what is important is to tune your mind towards an objective.

...

Don't you love trading? :D
I certainly do, and the small win, large loss argument has been brought before. You did see that I reject systems with win loss ratio < 3 didn't you?

I use mech systems for the very reason that human perception makes patterns pretty much useless, especially elliot and candlestick pattern that play off of wide or narrow range candles.

Trading is a fabulous game
:)

Regards
Oddi
 
Quote from t0yland:



> 50% win rate does not mean curve fit. Ever had a system that takes smaller wins and larger losses? Well it means a very high win rate. Does that some how equate to curve fit? If it does I must be in the dark.

Hi toyland, yes I have seen these strange systems. I would not play a system that has a negative efficiency rating, nor a win loss ratio < 3, a system with small win/large loss will have both of those undesirables

Regards
Oddi
 
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