Story Of Obama

Quote from Yannis:

No need for gradstanding, I didn't say anything about the effective tax rate you are quoting.

The reason I refer to tax rates per se is because the effective tax rate is hard to compare with regular rates. Why is there a difference? Have they invested their money in stocks and are getting dividends? Have they bought a house and are paying tax free interest on the mortgage? Charitable contributions? Invested in a government sponsored risky eneterprise? There are many good reasons people get breaks in taxation, and most of them have immediate economic (eg, employment) repercussions.

Therefore, quoting something so murky as effective tax rates and calling the tax system regressive is misleading - apples and oranges. No doubt we need tax legislation overhaul, elimination of deductions and flattening of the tax code, I'm all for it. Then we can see who pays what and why. Until then, the thing to work on imo is the nominal tax rate which is a clean number.

In general, I'm very reluctant to belittle those most talented, dedicated and successful among us who are making the whole economy work. Yes, there are cheats, but isn't that common across all strata of society? How about the millions who scam $billions out of entitlements like food stamps and disability? Do they pay any income taxes? Shouldn't they?

Yannis, just wanted to comment on a number of your statements above that are demonstrably incorrect and answer a question or two that you had, where the answer is known.

First "effective tax rates" are not all all "murky". They are known with great accuracy once you have defined "effective tax rate" and the cohort they apply too.

Economists agree on the definition of a progressive tax. It is a tax where the greater one's taxable income the greater the effective tax rate. For a cohort consisting of the top 1% in taxable income the effective tax rate is 15%. It is not at all difficult to define a middle class cohort for which the effective tax rate is a little > 15%. Thus the tax as it relates to these respective cohorts is regressive, not progressive. It is not anything that can be argued about. Facts are facts whether we like them or not.

I don't know what you mean by "regular rates" as the effective tax rate is "regular" by definition. I think what you were asking is "why is the effective rate for the top 1% lower than for a cohort with smaller income?" If that is what you wanted to know, then you have answered your own question; it's because for most in the top 1% much of their income, for some all of it, is unearned income which is taxed at a lower rate by the IRS than is earned income.

Incidentally, I applaud your "reluctance to belittle those most talented, dedicated and successful among us who are making the whole economy work. " Good for you I say! Please recognize that many in the top 1% are "rent seekers" to use economist speak. There is very little productivity associated with rent seeking. You'll find those that you are properly reluctant to belittle mainly in the middle and lower income classes.
 
Quote from Yannis:

It is well understood by now that efficiency creates both good products AND more jobs in the economy. That's how Toyota et al took down GM et al, etc etc.
So the productivity increases of the past two years are why we have so many more people working today?
 
Quote from Ricter:

So the productivity increases of the past two years are why we have so many more people working today?
No, it's because business people are afraid to reinvest their gains from improved productivity because they don't trust the guy with the funny ears and his gang.
 
Quote from Yannis:

No, it's because business people are afraid to reinvest their gains from improved productivity because they don't trust the guy with the funny ears and his gang.
So businessmen are currently turning down sales (rather than hiring) because of uncertainty?
 
Quote from piezoe:

...First "effective tax rates" are not all all "murky". They are known with great accuracy once you have defined "effective tax rate" and the cohort they apply too...
One family's effective tax rate is lower than expected because they bought a new house and have a ginormous mortgage or they just gave a million to charity, another family has income from overeas and they already paid taxes there, etc etc a thousand special cases making it hard to understand them as a unified group and compare.

What we can compare is marginal tax rates at various levels for State, Federal and Local, and dividend tax policies - which I call regular/nominal tax rates.

In addition, we can compare types and levels of deductions available to taxpayers across states and countries.
 
Quote from Yannis:

One family's effective tax rate is lower than expected because they bought a new house and have a ginormous mortgage or they just gave a million to charity, another family has income from overeas and they already paid taxes there, etc etc a thousand special cases making it hard to understand them as a unified group and compare.

What we can compare is marginal tax rates at various levels for State, Federal and Local, and dividend tax policies - which I call regular/nominal tax rates.

In addition, we can compare types and levels of deductions available to taxpayers across states and countries.

Anecdotes are not facts, and attempting to change the subject by introducing extraneous, random musings, your own brand of "murkiness," does nothing to support your position.
 
In Summary:

attachment.php


:) :) :)
 

Attachments

Romney Says Obama Has 'Abdicated Leadership' on Syria
NewsMax


Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney blamed President Barack Obama for a "lack of leadership" on the crisis in Syria on Thursday and accused him of abdicating the U.S. role to the United Nations.

Romney turned the U.N. Security Council's failure to approve a Western-backed resolution threatening sanctions against the Syrian regime into an assault on Obama's foreign policy. Russia and China resisted U.S. pressure and vetoed the resolution.

"While Russia and Iran have rushed to support (Syrian President) Bashar al-Assad and thousands have been slaughtered, President Obama has abdicated leadership and subcontracted U.S. policy to Kofi Annan and the United Nations," Romney said in a statement.
 
Quote from Yannis:

Where are Jim, Tim and Franklin now?

Just in case you might have wondered how their ineptitude affected their lives after they ruined so many dreams and lives. Here's a quick look into the three former Fannie Mae executives who brought down Wall Street.

Franklin Raines - was a Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at Fannie Mae. Raines was forced to retire from his position with Fannie Mae when auditing discovered severe irregularities in Fannie Mae's accounting activities. Raines left with a "golden parachute valued at $240 Million in benefits. The Government filed suit against Raines when the depth of the accounting scandal became clear.

Tim Howard - was the Chief Financial Officer of Fannie Mae. Howard "was a strong internal proponent of using accounting strategies that would ensure a "stable pattern of earnings" at Fannie. Investigations by federal regulators and the company's board of directors since concluded that management did manipulate 1998 earnings to trigger bonuses. Raines and Howard resigned under pressure in late 2004. Howard's Golden Parachute was estimated at $20 Million!

Jim Johnson - A former executive at Lehman Brothers and who was later forced from his position as Fannie Mae CEO. Investigators found that Fannie Mae had hidden a substantial amount of Johnson's 1998 compensation from the public, reporting that it was between $6 million and $7 million when it fact it was $21 million." Johnson is currently under investigation for taking illegal loans from Countrywide while serving as CEO of Fannie Mae. Johnson's Golden Parachute was estimated at $28 Million.

WHERE ARE THEY NOW?

FRANKLIN RAINES?
Raines works for the Obama Campaign as his Chief Economic Advisor.
TIM HOWARD?
Howard is a Chief Economic Advisor to Obama under Franklin Raines.
JIM JOHNSON?
Johnson was hired as a Senior Obama Finance Advisor and was selected to run Obama's Vice Presidential Search Committee.

Kinda makes you sick to your stomach. Our government seems to be rotten to the core! Are we stupid or what?

:(

That's all true except the where are they now part, all of which is false. You are drinking your own Cool Aid Yannis.
 
Back
Top