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stops not hidden at IB?
- Thread starter otayah
- Start date
Quote from pwrtrdr:
+1
Never underestimate ANY broker. No matter size, they have institutional and retail divisions.....
And if the two divisions collaborate - watch out.
Here's a case in which Mellon might have violated retail Best Execution obligations in order to benefit select institutions.
http://www.sec.gov/litigation/admin/2011/34-63724.pdf
This issue can be sorted out easily whether trading manually or programmatically... enter only an account protective stop with your bracket and stop out trades manually or via your program. Further account protection could be in place in the form of a deep otm option, it can be costly but it may be worth it just for sanity protective purposes...
It should be easy enough if somebody is trading programmatically to try different routing options [costs differ?] and see how the stops problem plays out...
It should be easy enough if somebody is trading programmatically to try different routing options [costs differ?] and see how the stops problem plays out...
Quote from jindie:
The first and last time I used a stop through IB was a couple of months ago.
Took a fairly small short position eod on a relatively thinly traded stock.
I sleep through most of the trading day (I live in Australia), so I set up a conditional order to stop me out at about 10% above my short price.
Next day the stock opened at around the previous day's close, it then moved up 10% in the first hour, just enough to take out my stop, and then immediately collapsed 20% to close about 10% down for the day.
Maybe I was just unlucky, but frankly I'm just getting more and more cynical about everything to do with the markets nowadays.
OK.
I trade with IB. All my close stops reside on my machine (sierrachart with dlls). My disaster stops are with ib.
I have had the same experience that you did, more than once, of having my privately held stop triggered. So yours get hit on ib's server; mine get hit on my server.
Guess what: it proves nothing other than that your judgement (and mine) of how far out a stop had to be to avoid pickups was wrong on the day.
Original poster here.
I've been busy with other stuff, but wanted to report back my initial findings. I've kept using IB with my stops on the IB server. But I reduced my order size from $100k to $10k and am using iceberg orders with 100-share display size. So far, it seems that price is not being manipulated to hit my stops. I'm not sure if it's the reduction in size or the iceberg that is helping because the orders are so small.
My next step is to use iceberg orders (100-share display size) for $50k chunks and then eventually back to my original $100k chunks. I'll report back...
I've been busy with other stuff, but wanted to report back my initial findings. I've kept using IB with my stops on the IB server. But I reduced my order size from $100k to $10k and am using iceberg orders with 100-share display size. So far, it seems that price is not being manipulated to hit my stops. I'm not sure if it's the reduction in size or the iceberg that is helping because the orders are so small.
My next step is to use iceberg orders (100-share display size) for $50k chunks and then eventually back to my original $100k chunks. I'll report back...
Quote from otayah:
Original poster here.
I've been busy with other stuff, but wanted to report back my initial findings. I've kept using IB with my stops on the IB server. But I reduced my order size from $100k to $10k and am using iceberg orders with 100-share display size. So far, it seems that price is not being manipulated to hit my stops. I'm not sure if it's the reduction in size or the iceberg that is helping because the orders are so small.
My next step is to use iceberg orders (100-share display size) for $50k chunks and then eventually back to my original $100k chunks. I'll report back...
I don't understand what iceberg orders have to do with stops. Are these stop market orders or stop limit orders? Are you saying you don't want to show your true size once your stop is activated (an iceberg stop limit order)? Or are you saying that you think having an iceberg order helps prevent stop running in the first place? Because if you are saying the latter then that doesn't make sense at all.
Enter with iceberg orders, exit with stop-loss market orders (or preferably target limit orders)
One of my theories was that entering a single order of $100k (5000 shares of a $20 stock, 2000 shares of a $50 stock, etc.) made bots or market makers think an individual retail trader just made a large daytrade and so they push price until that exact amount is puked out in a stop market order. Others here seemed to agree this might be the case, so I thought iceberg orders might help conceal the fact that an individual retail trader is making a large order and then price would move "normally" as it did during all my simulated trading.
You disagree?
One of my theories was that entering a single order of $100k (5000 shares of a $20 stock, 2000 shares of a $50 stock, etc.) made bots or market makers think an individual retail trader just made a large daytrade and so they push price until that exact amount is puked out in a stop market order. Others here seemed to agree this might be the case, so I thought iceberg orders might help conceal the fact that an individual retail trader is making a large order and then price would move "normally" as it did during all my simulated trading.
You disagree?