Stopping illegal immigration

[phenomena]

If there were no illegals, employers would have to raise wages until americans were compelled to do those jobs, period.

Basic economics. Supply and demand. I'm not talking about unions, I'm talking about basic labor market facts. Unions in fact distort labor market forces by enforcing wages and conditions, such as trying to keep firms from employing non union workers. If there were no illegals, employers would either pay whatever will bring workers, or do the work themselves. Democrats work against the interest of the average working american by supporting illegal immigration. They do so for votes. Pretty clear cut example of moral bankruptcy.

Quote from nutmeg:

I know a couple guys in management (one @ GM another works for a supplier), who have told me personally that a large % of union wokrers making >$27 have or show little motivation to do their respective jobs.

From what I recall regarding job satisfaction, on a scale of 1-10, pay rates only bring the worker up from a -1 to a zero. meaning although we may be adequately compensated, as soon as we are paid what we think we are worth, there are other problems with the J-O-B.

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[MarketMasher]

Quote from phenomena:

If it can be shown that they knew the individual was an illegal, it's reasonable to have a penalty associated with that. However, I don't think it's "criminal" and don't think there should be any jail time for it. However, illegally entering and working in the usa is criminal.

It is illegal to hire an illegal immigrant who is committing a crime by being in the country illegally but hiring him is not "criminal"? How'd you make the tricky "U-turn" back to it not being criminal?

By openly encouraging illegal immigration by offering jobs to them you are fostering the breaking of U.S. law.

Assess heavy fines PER ILLEGAL HIRE on the businesses that hire them. Do proper due diligence or suffer the consequences. Repeat offenders' fines scale higher exponentially. More that 3 times and you go to jail. How's that for deterrence?

But WHO would fight for such a law? Democrats? Republicans? Which party has our best interests at heart...?

 

[phenomena]

The same way that speeding on the interstate is not "criminal", or parking in the wrong place is not "criminal". It is still punishable, you just don't go to jail for it.

Quote from MarketMasher:

It is illegal to hire an illegal immigrant who is committing a crime by being in the country illegally but hiring him is not "criminal"? How'd you make the tricky "U-turn" back to it not being criminal?

By openly encouraging illegal immigration by offering jobs to them you are fostering the breaking of U.S. law.

Assess heavy fines PER ILLEGAL HIRE on the businesses that hire them. Do proper due diligence or suffer the consequences. Repeat offenders' fines scale higher exponentially. More that 3 times and you go to jail. How's that for deterrence?

But WHO would fight for such a law? Democrats? Republicans? Which party has our best interests at heart...?

 

[MarketMasher]

Quote from phenomena:

The same way that speeding on the interstate is not "criminal", or parking in the wrong place is not "criminal". It is still punishable, you just don't go to jail for it.

Ok. Didn't realized the illegal immigration problem was on the same scale as a speeding ticket.

Gonna have to think about that one.

Hmmmm....

 

[phenomena]

I never said anything about any scale, you just made that up. I can assure you that speeding kills more people per year than illegal immigration, however. Regardless, I'd suggest that the fine for hiring an illegal be greater than the average speeding fine.

Quote from MarketMasher:

Ok. Didn't realized the illegal immigration problem was on the same scale as a speeding ticket.

Gonna have to think about that one.

Hmmmm....

 

[MarketMasher]

Quote from phenomena:

I never said anything about any scale, you just made that up. I can assure you that speeding kills more people per year than illegal immigration, however. Regardless, I'd suggest that the fine for hiring an illegal be greater than the average speeding fine.

No, that is the logic of your statement. Ever hear of "Let the time fit the crime"? You are equating the severity of the acts behind illegal immigration with a speeding or parking ticket.

If fact, what's all the fuss about? The whole illegal immigration thing is no more than a speeding or parking ticket in severity!!

Still, it would be nice to see either Reid or Boehner stick up for...

(drum-roll...) The American PEOPLE (trumpets and fanfare)

by bringing a strict enforcement and penalty law to a vote.
But who will be first to be our Champion??

 

[phenomena]

No it isn't the logic of my statement. That may be your flawed perception, however. Because you lack the capacity to understand the logic doesn't mean that your interpretation is correct.

I said that hiring an illegal isn't "criminal". Just as speeding isn't "criminal". I never mentioned any of this shit you just authored. I said that the illegals themselves are criminals, not their employers. There are many things which are illegal, yet not criminal. That may be too abstract for you to fit your mind around, if so I appologize and I'll try to remember to stick to more basic concepts with you in the future.

Quote from MarketMasher:

No, that is the logic of your statement. Ever hear of "Let the time fit the crime"? You are equating the severity of the acts behind illegal immigration with a speeding or parking ticket.

If fact, what's all the fuss about? The whole illegal immigration thing is no more than a speeding or parking ticket in severity!!

Still, it would be nice to see either Reid or Boehner stick up for...

(drum-roll...) The American PEOPLE (trumpets and fanfare)

by bringing a strict enforcement and penalty law to a vote.
But who will be first to be our Champion??

 

[MarketMasher]

Quote from phenomena:

No it isn't the logic of my statement. That may be your flawed perception, however. Because you lack the capacity to understand the logic doesn't mean that your interpretation is correct.

I said that hiring an illegal isn't "criminal". Just as speeding isn't "criminal". I never mentioned any of this shit you just authored. I said that the illegals themselves are criminals, not their employers. There are many things which are illegal, yet not criminal. That may be too abstract for you to fit your mind around, if so I appologize and I'll try to remember to stick to more basic concepts with you in the future.

You are obviously rationalizing in an attempt to continue the cheap labor carousel of illegal immigration. Therefore you have no logic other than fits your rationalization.

How's this:

If employers had to do jail time for hiring illegals (being repeat offenders), would they:
1) Be more likely to hire illegals
2) Less likely to hire illegals

If the answer to Q1 is 2, then

If employers stop hiring illegals, do those people have
1) More incentive to cross illegally
2) Less incentive to cross illegally

 

[phenomena]

How's this:

If employers had their families shot in the head in front of them before being publicly disemboweled for hiring illegals would they:
1) Be more likely to hire illegals
2) Be less likely to hire illegals

If the answer to Q1 is 2, then why shouldn't we try that instead of just jail?

Quote from MarketMasher:

You are obviously rationalizing in an attempt to continue the cheap labor carousel of illegal immigration. Therefore you have no logic other than fits your rationalization.

How's this:

If employers had to do jail time for hiring illegals (being repeat offenders), would they:
1) Be more likely to hire illegals
2) Less likely to hire illegals

If the answer to Q1 is 2, then

If employers stop hiring illegals, do those people have
1) More incentive to cross illegally
2) Less incentive to cross illegally

 

[MarketMasher]

Quote from phenomena:

How's this:

If employers had their families shot in the head in front of them before being publicly disemboweled for hiring illegals would they:
1) Be more likely to hire illegals
2) Be less likely to hire illegals

If the answer to Q1 is 2, then why shouldn't we try that instead of just jail?

Who would support that bill - Reid or Boehner?